Spellpower buff in Cataclysm

[ricecookie]

I've been reading up on the talents for Cataclysm and have been wondering a thing about how the new changes to the spellpower buff will work out for enhancement. With the new talent, Wrathful Totems, it will be possible for elemental to drop a dps-totem such as searing or magma without losing the spellpower buff whilst enhancement are still forced to drop Totem of Wrath to keep the spellpower buff up (if we are the only one thatcan provide it). This seems like a very big dps-loss not only due to the loss of the dps from the totem but also because of the dps-loss Lav Lash will have due to no Searing Totem-stacks.

So my question is why even make a talent that increases our dps when we can only use it when someone else provides the buff for us?

[Omanley]

enhancements totem of wrath provides 4% spellpowr, while elemental shamans and demonology warlocks provide 10%.

yes we may have to put wrath down when there are no ele/demo around(or a resto shaman to put down the 4% one in our stead), but that´s the same with flametongue totem currently.

[ilialilov]

Well the problem with elementals was that they relayed too much on being able to drop dps totems to do competitive DPS. I mean you could see a difference between 1500 and 2000 dps if you have a demo lock or another elemental. The enhancement totem is the same as the resto one. So yes if there is no other shaman in your group and no demo lock either you will lose some dps. To be honest that is pretty unlikely scenario for 25 man groups. On elemental point of view they were forced do drop wrath unless a demo lock is present (or another ele) .. and thats only one spec for one class. Much bigger issue.

[Hypernetic]

enhancements totem of wrath provides 4% spellpowr, while elemental shamans and demonology warlocks provide 10%.

yes we may have to put wrath down when there are no ele/demo around(or a resto shaman to put down the 4% one in our stead), but that´s the same with flametongue totem currently.

No, "totem of wrath" isn't a totem anymore, all of your fire totems grant the raid wide SP buff as elemental. This does NOT stack with flametongue totem.

[ricecookie]

Well Im usually the only svalan in a 10-man grp so it will be a problem there. Missing out on the totems damage, which now is around 500 dps, and searing totems stacks will be a big dps-loss imo. Why cant all fire totems grant spellpower and have ele have a talent that increases it?

[ilialilov]

Again ricecookie ... because enhancement buff can be given by Demo locks, Ele shamans, Enchantment shaman and resto shaman. Thats 4 specs. And Ele buff can be given by Demo locks and Ele shamans ... thats only 2 specs. Not to mention that one out of the 4 for enhancement is healing spec. Its perfectly normal if you have bad setup to sacrifice some personal dps for raid dps. For ele the "bad setup" was almost every setup.

[Leafen]

The thing is that this makes Enhancement even worse in 10-man, since you usually dont go withh 2 shaman (only need 1 BL =S), and demo locks aren't to awesome in 10-man either.

This makes u wanna bring a resto or elemental as your shaman, and a Frost Dk for the melee buffs.
But i guess i will Be in a 25 man raid for the next expansion, dont even have to enter 10-mans. /cheer

[ricecookie]

Yes 4 specs bit only 2 classes. It's like the above poster said; In à 10-man raid youd rather take an ele or resto shaman + an frost dk than an enhance cuz ull still get all the buffs and not bringing à spec that has à dps-loss. Normally in à 10-man raid u wont take more than 1 shaman

---------- Post added 2010-07-07 at 08:37 AM ----------

Cant see why they shouldnt put the talent in reach for enhance and have another talent further down for ele tjat increases the buff. Win, win?

[ilialilov]

So you are saying that they will bring resto shaman instead of you because if you go you will lose 500 dps? Btw if we are making wild setups I can say that perfect healing setup is Pala/Priest ... so no spot for resto shamans in 10 mans ...

[Leafen]

Then i as a raidleader would bring an elemental shaman for my BL. Not an Enh.
EDIT: Or even a mage... *sigh*

[ilialilov]

Well elemental is a better buff after all... truth is that you as raid leader should pick players that can play and worry less about buffs. I have killed LK HC on 10 man and it was pretty messed up group ... we got like 3 paladins 2 dks 2 priests a shaman a rogue and a hunter. We were missing 13% spell dmg debuff, sunders, 3% dmg buff and god knows what else (raid comp is down). It didn't really matter. We were with 25 man gear OFC but still I want to say that our setup was far far far from perfect if you watch the raid buffs. Buffs don't kill bosses, players kill bosses.
Edit: just to clarify kill was with 10% buff
Edit2: raid comp is up http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000

[ricecookie]

So you are saying that they will bring resto shaman instead of you because if you go you will lose 500 dps? Btw if we are making wild setups I can say that perfect healing setup is Pala/Priest ... so no spot for resto shamans in 10 mans ...

Trolls be trolling. I never said resto over enhance for the dps-spot but rather a frost dk and an ele or resto shaman.

[ilialilov]

I never said resto over enhance for the dps-spot but rather a frost dk and an ele or resto shaman.

Seriously now. I just wanted to say that you cant just make the statement "they will bring X instead of me because he has the same buff" ... the same buff is not a reason for that kind of action

[Leafen]

You can't have all buffs in 10-man But u do not get a group where 20% of the dps can't even do 100% of his ub dps for a challenging kill...

And you are talking about the talents that are at live today, we are discussing the future talents as it looks right now.
Even more of our dmg will be done by our fire totem, and losing what looks like to be a huge portion of our dmg to buff a raid with 4% sp doesn't seem too great imo.

[ricecookie]

Seriously now. I just wanted to say that you cant just make the statement "they will bring X instead of me because he has the same buff" ... the same buff is not a reason for that kind of action

Then you mustve misunderstood me. I was talking about the Whole package of frost dk plus resto/ele shaman which will have no dps-loss plus same/better buffs

[Hypernetic]

Well mages can lust now, so maybe you should worry about that instead!


Seriously, there is no rule against bringing two shamans. Also, shamans aren't the only class who sometimes has to sacrifice personal DPS to help out a raid, get over it. As for group comps and all that, forget about it. Cata is changing quite a bit, about everything, today's "stacked" comps for 10 mans won't be tomorrows.