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  1. #541
    Stood in the Fire Krullthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    Worst patch day ever, I need a giant hug
    /hug
    tnx for keeping us all updated

    <I used to be a poster like you, but then I took an infraction to the knee>

  2. #542
    drop the 31pt talent trees idea. Btw. in vanilla wow we had 51 talent points but in cataclysm only 41, wtf ?

  3. #543
    Field Marshal TZM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powershard View Post
    Vanilla WoW 2005:
    • You needed knowledge to build good talent trees.
    • You had to be social to be able to make like a 40 man raiding party.
    • You had to work for your epic gear and to maintain PvP title such as High Warlord.
    • You were afraid while leveling with certain classes since the PvP balance was not made for 1v1 yet skilled players had chance of winning even if underpowered and victory in those situations meant more.
    • The game was harder and required to use your own brains.

    Cataclysm 2010:
    • You don't need any knowledge to build good talent trees.
    • You don't need to be social nor speak english to make it up to a instance running party.
    • You no longer need to work for your epic gear or PvP title since there are none.
    • You don't need to be afraid of dying in world PvP because epic gear has been normalized and people doesn't "gank" anymore because its like fighting a clone and not a little girl.
    • The game is easy now because everything is automatized. No need to even read quest description, just look in the map and walk there to do the same job as always, either kill loads or click an activator.

    I'm surprised devs doesn't realize this.
    They changed them at some part of the development?
    I bet that in the next expansion after cataclysm they replace players with bots since everyone is leaving so that there is a feeling of MMO instead of internet singleplayer.
    ANswer is simple - They make more.. Alot more, money with this new type of World of Warcraft simple as that ...
    Characters: Luck- 90 | Twitch channel

  4. #544

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by TZM View Post
    ANswer is simple - They make more.. Alot more, money with this new type of World of Warcraft simple as that ...
    Well, I haven't seen the playerbase increasing in the past 2 years.
    I remember them announce stuff like "we hit 9 million players" and "10 million players" in a short time but now for more than 2 years it has been just still because there are a lot of people leaving, faking the records of active accounts.

    I don't think they are making more money with such changes like announcing 31 point talent trees.
    Of course stuff like expansions bring new players for a moment(such as me) but that is not permanent.

    They are foolishly trying to hold on to players with empty promises of new content via every patch that pops in an average of every 2 months.
    People keep falling for it since they don't realize that to kill a boss like Lich King they already paid for that 1 year ago when they bought the expansion.
    That's what WOTLK was all about, right?
    Killing Arthas.
    Blizzard is just denying the inevitable.

    Same will happen with Cataclysm, they don't want to allow players finish the game "too fast" so they will give the boss after... 1 year of the release.
    Too bad I'm not around to see it and this is for two reasons: I'm not a hard core raider and I don't see a reason to wait 1 year to fight some piece of data for some pixels.
    I play(ed) the game because I enjoyed to play it, not because I was promised something.
    Then they went and killed all I loved of only to satisfy the tremendous amount of QQ made by noobs who hadn't figured out why they were below the par with the purple players so blizzard made welfare epics and other bad changes to the game.

    Not as simple as that but something like it.

  5. #545
    What I don't understand is why blizzard would take out all the talent points. I really enjoy the current system. As a lock, rogue, pally, and dk all my points spent are for a reason and the 3-5 floater points are up to me which I can spend on fun stuff or something that may help me out in some circumstance whether it be in a 5 man, 10 man, 25 or just doing my dailies. What are all these points they're saying people are bitching about sooooo much?

    Plus with the amount of points you had to spend it was easy to misclick something and have to respec all over again, Thus making you spend more gold. thus making you play more. as the new trees stand, you cant really fuck up.

  6. #546
    High Overlord Kabasue's Avatar
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    Holding my breath on the new talent trees. On the one side getting mutlate at level 10 will make it really nice for new rogues, on the flip side not a hell of a lot of choice yet in the new trees, expecialy the combat tree. Seven points in pvp(ish) talents is got be bad mojo for combat pve rogues.

    Any who will be looking at it closely

    IF and WHEN my beta account stop updateing, dang thing has been updateing for like 2 hours so far.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by scelero View Post
    Plus with the amount of points you had to spend it was easy to misclick something and have to respec all over again, Thus making you spend more gold. thus making you play more. as the new trees stand, you cant really fuck up.
    You do realize there is a tool in game to keep you from doing so right? I doubt their "evil" goal is to hope you misclick so you play more.

    I see a lot of people complaining about this but I don't think they understand that this, as far as I see it, is not a bad change. This is going to stream line leveling and help keep new players playing the game. How much fun was it to grind out a level just to learn that you get 1% more crit? Sure die hard players who have been playing for years were/are okay with this, but newer players don't seem to like this, thus the change. They mentioned MONTHS ago that they would be removing some of the more "boring" talents and streamlining things.

    Cataclysm 2010:
    You don't need any knowledge to build good talent trees.
    You know this because you have played the live version yet, or because you are simply doom saying and have no idea how certain talents will be beneficial, or what the theorycrafting behind them will be? Sorry but until Cataclysm drops and the talents are final there is no use arguing over them and making up things like "you don't have to know anything to build a good tree."

    You don't need to be social nor speak english to make it up to a instance running party.
    Have you met most of the people playing WoW? Alot of them are tools, jerks and are usually asinine. Sorry but if I don't have to put up with them to run my daily dungeon or even level and alt, I am all for that. Also since when is not speaking English a bad thing? Couldn't they turn around and say "You don't even have to speak Spanish to play this game, so lame." Not really a valid excuse for calling the game easy. People of all races, and languages enjoy this game, so what if their native tongue is not your own? Plus I have met a lot of players who can't even speak English correctly and it IS their native tongue.

    You no longer need to work for your epic gear or PvP title since there are none.
    You don't need to be afraid of dying in world PvP because epic gear has been normalized and people doesn't "gank" anymore because its like fighting a clone and not a little girl.
    You were the one talking about people speaking English?
    So what if you don't need to fear dying in World pvp anymore? I for one enjoy world PVP, but when it starts to become some asshole ganking my lowbie 15 times over and just camping me, I get tired of it. I log off and see no reason to play if someone is just going to hunt people down to kill them. Usually the people going around ganking for hours on end are the ones who can't get into raids because they lack the intelligence. So what are you really fighting for here? The people who can't gank anymore or the feeling of constant danger?

    The game is easy now because everything is automatized. No need to even read quest description, just look in the map and walk there to do the same job as always, either kill loads or click an activator.
    There was never any reason to read quests. Things like questhelper have been around forever. You could do the same thing in Vanilla as you can now, just click kill and complete quest.

    I'm surprised devs doesn't realize this.
    They changed them at some part of the development?
    I bet that in the next expansion after cataclysm they replace players with bots since everyone is leaving so that there is a feeling of MMO instead of internet singleplayer.
    Again you were the one saying that not speaking English is a bad thing.
    People are leaving? Sure some people are but the player base still looks pretty strong to me. No other game has these numbers. Will WoW die one day? Sure. But not because someone like you says it will.

  8. #548
    people are missing some points

    lots of skills aren't gone - they are passive or baseline now

    for instance class: Hunter

    scatter shot is baseline trainable at lvl 15
    6 yards range is baseline, as for every other range dps class, as far as i checked

    some talents arent essential anymore
    5 % crit due lethal shots ? we dont need it, we've got more agi and 've more crit than before

    and yet some other talents - or - lets call them - important talents disappeared :7
    mortal shots, hunter just crit for 100 % ad dmg and can't increase it anymore
    marksman: piercing shots, marksman dps is lost here again


    and there are still some talent that are simply nobrainers
    5 % increased dmg due tracking is fine compared to our new beastmaster "lol vanilla crap aspect of the hawk is back"

    One with Nature
    15 % increased attack power due hawk ?
    we ve had this kind of talent in vanilla, and nobody specced it

    " you ask why ? - here is the answer"
    lvl 60 aspect of the hawk
    120 attack power
    +15 % hmm hmm ... 15 % sounds nice ... hmm ... oh ... OH ... WTF 18 attack power ?

    w8 w8 we are lvl 80 now, hawk is stronger now
    lvl 80 hawk
    300 attack power
    +15 % ... holy crap we specced 3 talent points for 45 attack power


    but w8, you also increase the aspect of the fox regen
    fox ... 20 % increased focus regen

    basic regen (6/s)
    +20 % (1,2focus/s)
    6 % increase of fox ...
    6 % of 20 % = toal 1,2 % ... thats right fox gives us now 21,2 % focus regen

    this means we gain 0,072 more focus per second with this MIGHTY TALENT

    yeah i see where my talent choices feel "stronger and more important" than ever before ... NOT

    - btw the cobra shot is ridiculous - why should i hit arcane shot ... erm .. yay 15 % of my attack power as arcane
    but i may also just continue firing weapong dmg + 27 % attack power

    LOL blizz

  9. #549
    Did I miss something? When were talents fun? It's fun to check EJ for the optimal build to use?

    Ohhhh it's fun to make to useless builds that gimp your character. Gotcha.

    I can only imagine the mouth breathers clapping their hands in enjoyment as they create the most useless spec ever. Blizzard is doing this for your own good.

    All Blizzard ever really promised is to get rid of the boring passive talents that don't alter how you play and give you some left over points to pick utility talents. My main is a rogue, assassination delivered, combat delivered... subtlety not so much. Sadly, the "utility" tree has no room for its utility, but at least you have the room for all your dps talents, unlike the groddy talent preview they had before. And WTF happened to filthy tricks? 20 sec cd on shadowstep please. And anyone who says that combat has 6 wasted points is getting shot, please believe that.

    Looked over mage talents also and im glad they get rid of the 50 talents in fire/frost that just raised fire/frost damage and just made it automatic instead. Also, resto/enhancement shaman trees look great, didn't really look at elemental since I never spec it. The rest I don't really know or care about anymore. My guess is the paladin and dk trees are horrible thats why there are so many little kids and mega nerds crying. Bet they are all humans and blood elfs too.

    Also, the stuff on the front page isn't the masterys for each spec, its what you get at level 10 for each one. Some of you seem to have the wrong idea, like thinking healing absorbtion for dk tanks has gone away.

  10. #550
    Sedlina they are removing the threat/crit damage bonus from pure classes and giving them baseline
    As always, apparently the one thing you can do in a duel that isn't cheating... is lose.

  11. #551
    There was never any reason to read quests. Things like questhelper have been around forever. You could do the same thing in Vanilla as you can now, just click kill and complete quest.
    And this is the problem with WoW's quests. Questhelper -addon should have been killed instead of implementing it in-game and quests should have been more complex which some thankfully are in cataclysm.
    So if you had a need to ask for help to solve a quest you could use your social skills in-game and ask helpful fellows or then see the effort of finding out online.


    Quote Originally Posted by Archer View Post
    Again you were the one saying that not speaking English is a bad thing.
    People are leaving? Sure some people are but the player base still looks pretty strong to me. No other game has these numbers. Will WoW die one day? Sure. But not because someone like you says it will.
    Nice hate there, too bad with that attitude you will die some day soon if you are to be lucky.
    With the capability to speak english I meant even the slightest word. There are 12-16 year old kids here in europe who don't speak a single word in english and they can be stuck with your party but that is not any major issue, just brought it up for the sake of the sport.
    I smell that you are an ameritard so you don't realize that the grammarpolice is not your enemy despite you are trying to use it as a weapon against my own words.

    People are leaving this is certain. One of the strongest signs is that there has been no new servers (at least here in europe) for many years now unlike during the peak years servers were released on a monthly basis to balance the amount of players between them and you really could pick up from like 10 new servers to play in and enjoy everyone being low level.
    Instead now all we see is realm merging because there is lack of players on them.

    I don't even start to speak with you about world PvP since you are obviously out of my league in that regard.
    Speaking about lowbie ganking? You have no idea not what so ever what I were talking it seems.

    And no I don't apologize for my grammar errors since english is not my native language.
    Understand it or not, it is not my problem. I can't help you utilize your own brains.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-15 at 12:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Sedlina they are removing the threat/crit damage bonus from pure classes and giving them baseline
    Baseline?
    I thought I read they were going to remove the threat reduction all together and boost the tank dps a little to compensate but still so that there will be aggro management issues in cataclysm since WOTLK was not very problematic in that regard.
    Last edited by Powershard; 2010-07-15 at 12:12 AM.

  12. #552
    And this is the problem with WoW's quests. Questhelper -addon should have been killed instead of implementing it in-game and quests should have been more complex which some thankfully are in cataclysm.
    So if you had a need to ask for help to solve a quest you could use your social skills in-game and ask helpful fellows or then see the effort of finding out online.
    Okay? So because they didn't break quest helper this game is now easy? Okay I get you. You can CHOOSE to use these things. Some people do some don't. Don't associate with the people that do if you have such an issue with it.


    Nice hate there, too bad with that attitude you will die some day soon if you are to be lucky.
    With that attitude? What? I'm sorry my only vice is ciggarettes not that that matters, but my attitude is not angry or elitist, sorry not sure what you are trying to say. I didn't hate on you at all, just pointing out facts. You posted it sucks people don't speak English then go and slaughter the language.

    With the capability to speak english I meant even the slightest word. There are 12-16 year old kids here in europe who doesn't speak a single word in english and they can be stuck with your party but that is not any major issue, just brought it up for the sake of the sport.
    You brought it up as an argument for the sake of.. Wait what? You brought it up you mentioned it as an issue now you say it is not an issue, when I argue with you?

    I smell that you are an ameritard so you don't realize that the grammarpolice is not your enemy despite you are trying to use it as a weapon against my own words.
    What is this I don't even......

    People are leaving this is certain. One of the strongest signs is that there has been no new servers (at least here in europe) for many years now unlike during the peak years servers were released on a monthly basis to balance the amount of players between them and you really could pick up from like 10 new servers to play in and enjoy everyone being low level.
    Instead now all we see is realm merging because there is lack of players on them.
    The player base still remains in the millions, so a few million have left. The game is still thriving.

    I don't even start to speak with you about world PvP since you are obviously out of my league in that regard.
    Speaking about lowbie ganking? You have no idea not what so ever what I were talking it seems.
    Sorry we "ameritards" use the term ganking when a much higher character tags lowbies for fun.

  13. #553
    Sorry we "ameritards" use the term ganking when a much higher character tags lowbies for fun.
    Ganking during vanilla was understood as killing an inferior character i.e. level 60 with blues when you were in warlord epics. This was from the times when there was greater gear diversity.

    This is the problem the present day WoW has, everyone is just a clone when it comes to itemization with quite small differences. Blizzard tried to fix this with socketing but since everyone can socket it didn't fix anything, remained only as a cool feature.

    ...when I argue with you?
    This is what I meant with your bad attitude. You argue instead of discussing like adults. Proving your point by proving me to be wrong (elitist?).
    I didn't know you didn't realize this and thus I apologize my earlier accusations.

    Don't see any reason to reply on the other points you made.
    Last edited by Powershard; 2010-07-15 at 12:31 AM.

  14. #554
    Hugs for you then Bibi. You're doing an awesome job
    Lots of interesting news here!

  15. #555
    The Patient
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    Again a lovely news post ! Love the new talent trees, can someone honestly say they enjoyed having more talents, which of 90% was must have for your spec, and then you were given the choise of spending two or three points on talents you like? Its not changed, just requires less clicking and removes the ability to do a complete failure tree from the noobs.

    Not sure about all the lvl 10 abilities for every class, but I'll just have to wait and see how it works.


    Quote Originally Posted by Powershard View Post
    Ganking during vanilla was understood as killing an inferior character i.e. level 60 with blues when you were in warlord epics. This was from the times when there was greater gear diversity.
    Wait, what? It was also used for what it is used today, atleast on most servers. Don't say that as a fact as it is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powershard View Post
    This is the problem the present day WoW has, everyone is just a clone when it comes to itemization with quite small differences. Blizzard tried to fix this with socketing but since everyone can socket it didn't fix anything, remained only as a cool feature.
    It has always been the same, with the differense of those choosing gear because of appearence, and those who choose gear by stats. And the people between. Sure, it was harder to get the best gear in Vanilla, but on the way, everyone eventually looked the same more or less.


    Quote Originally Posted by Powershard View Post
    This is what I meant with your bad attitude. You argue instead of discussing like adults. Proving your point by proving me to be wrong (elitist?).
    I didn't know you didn't realize this and thus I apologize my earlier accusations.
    This isn't about me, but take a good look at yourself and think again. Also, look up what the word argue might mean. And if I were you, I wouldn't be calling anyone else elitist but myself.

    Also, I recall you said on some post that you quit the game because everyone is running on epics now. So you play solely for gear, great, doesn't mean that everyone does.

    And to the one (if it wasn't you) who said the amount of players is dropping, I think not. Servers have more capacity nowadays too, and the server system has been improved. Just because you feel like quitting, doesn't mean everyone thinks so. Most of the WoW players I know that have quitted during WOTLK are really excited about these new Cataclysm changes and are coming back. If I had to say something on this, I'd say we are going to see a lot more players coming in to the came after/during cataclysm.

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammikaameri View Post
    Again a lovely news post ! Love the new talent trees, can someone honestly say they enjoyed having more talents, which of 90% was must have for your spec, and then you were given the choise of spending two or three points on talents you like? Its not changed, just requires less clicking and removes the ability to do a complete failure tree from the noobs.
    Its not that good. They had already promised us LONG ago that they would be removing flat +damage talents.
    The reason most of us are whining its because they removed most of the fun talents.
    Fiery payback
    Firestarter
    burning determination
    arctic winds
    improved CoC
    improved Wards
    Arcane shielding
    arcane fortitude
    arcane instability
    nerfed arcane repulsion

    etc.
    As always, apparently the one thing you can do in a duel that isn't cheating... is lose.

  17. #557
    I was all for taking out a few talents and trying to consolidate others...but wow this looks dumb'd down and some are just completely gone. Kind of boring and bleh.

  18. #558
    Hummmmm I don't see how the talent tree is "boring"(may be not as good as promised ).
    Take DK Tank as an example, as the talent point is less, I have to choose whether I want a threat tank or a survival tank instead of a standard build like currently is.

    The design philosophy is good as it give(or call it force if you really want to) is a good game design. What I actually worried is Bz's implementation on those talent. Their history is bad in this aspect

  19. #559
    Dreadlord Shambulanced's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnickybx View Post
    Did I miss something? When were talents fun? It's fun to check EJ for the optimal build to use?

    Ohhhh it's fun to make to useless builds that gimp your character. Gotcha.
    That was definitely a problem with the old builds.

    The new builds remove any real choices, though. The obviously-pvp talents are still obviously pvp. I experimented with several classes on the talent calc and found that there was never a point where I really had to think about where the next point should go.

    Ghostcrawler keeps throwing around high-brow talk about "making talent choices matter," but as far as I can see there aren't any difficult choices to make. For pve dps DKs the choice is whether to gouge their own dps to take an interrupt-talent (that previously had passive +str on it) for raid utility or not. Aside from that, nothing really. Combat rogue was really easy for me to figure out.

    I'm sure the talents will at least get a little more complex before launch; however, I am still disappointed that I'm not really sitting here saying, "Dang, that's an awesome talent...but so is this one. Which one should I choose?" Rather, I'm saying, "Well, that's obvious. Hmm. This is obvious too..." and I'm not even that much of a theorycrafter. I plead totally guilty for reading EJ forums to gather the info other people have already worked to put together. So if it's obvious to me...well. You get the idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by flick86 View Post
    It is not and never will be elitist to expect another player to know how to play his class and carry his own weight.

  20. #560
    Here is the gist of it:

    After sticking your 31 points into your chosen tree, you will have about four talents left in that tree. The "choice" you will have is to choose 3-4 of those talents, or talents in the bottom two tiers of another tree. For Blizzard to make this system work, *this has to be a real, interesting choice for every spec*. That means that those four "worst" talents in your tree and several of the T1-2 talents in another tree need to be both useful and interesting.

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