Condensed Talent Trees Discussion

[Littlenino]

What is everybody's opinion on the new condensed talent trees released with the latest beta build? Was it an overall improvement from the old ones? Leave your thoughts here!

Link: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?shaman#,,12479

Personally I like the way the enhancement tree turned out seeing as how we got a new mana regen talent named "Primal Wisdom" which looks like it will be our answer to not having Intellect on our armor anymore, as well as Primal Strikes going from a 40% dmg increase to a 45% dmg increase.

This is an Enhance spec I threw together real quick: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?shaman#Z8-W91oUP,,12479

By the looks of it we keep all of the major talents that we had prior to the overhaul.

[Xunae]

I tried to spec Ele (main spec on live) and it felt like my only choices were between imp fire nova or reverberation and going down enhance or resto which in the end I chose enhance because of more mana and more dmg. Ive gone through most of the talent trees trying to spec for my main spec in each class and nearly all of them have little to no choice in them. for feral druids I reached a point where I picked up every non-bear talent in the tree and had points to spare after offspeccing resto. I really hope they do some serious work on the trees.

[Fornaw]

No elemental fury as enhancement is a major failure for the new trees. Hopefully they won't push that live because it will break the enhancement tree pretty badly. I really wanted reverb to be an optional talent for enhance, but it's been placed completely out of reach. All around the trees look really boring, far more cookie cutter than the trees are today. It's to the point where you almost might as well choose PvE or PvP and tree and not actually spend your points. I'm hoping that's an artifact of their unpolished nature.

Looking at the Elemental tree it's actually an example of exactly what my concerns were for how they could screw up this change. You get exactly 4 points of freedom. 2 of which must go into reverb/elemental warding/imp FN and 2 of which can go into those previously listed or imp shields/ancestral swiftness. Considering that's 10% of your total points this just seems absurd. 90% of your talent points are as obvious as a 4 year old's idea of a practical joke, the remaining 10% don't actually seem to do anything most of the time. Be honest if you were an Ele shammy are your talents really going to make you feel more powerful going 80->85?

Also: Do people realize this is a Shaman subforum thread?

[cannibalghoul]

it is definitely incomplete. however, i am really loving the enhancement changes so far. i came when i saw imp. ghost wolf + ancestral swiftness combined

[Shleven]

Overall, yes, I believe that the trees are an improvement over live. On live, the trees are overwhelmingly large and one or two points in the wrong spot can throw your spec off completely; and now with the condensed trees it's a good feeling to not have to put 5 points into - for example - Icy Talons. I like the new trees, but still I am somewhat disappointed that things hadn't changed as drastically as I had envisioned although it is still early.

Kinda wandered into the shaman forums on accident, but my points stand I suppose :P

[Geckomayhem]

I only play elemental and resto, so wasn't interested in looking at enhancement. So far, elemental is shaping up nicely. I want to see earthquake in action before I judge it. Resto isn't too bad so far, either. Guess we just wait and see how they shape up. They definitely need to change a fair number of the talents to make them exciting and interesting; but the same can be said for all class's trees -- some a lot more than others.

---------- Post added 2010-07-14 at 03:13 PM ----------

I tried to spec Ele (main spec on live) and it felt like my only choices were between imp fire nova or reverberation and going down enhance or resto which in the end I chose enhance because of more mana and more dmg. Ive gone through most of the talent trees trying to spec for my main spec in each class and nearly all of them have little to no choice in them. for feral druids I reached a point where I picked up every non-bear talent in the tree and had points to spare after offspeccing resto. I really hope they do some serious work on the trees.

They will be receiving a lot of feedback over the next few weeks, so expect there to be quite a lot of changes as the trees transition from where they are at now to a better idea of what they had in mind when they said "cool" and "fun". That said, I can see that we will have a few options in any given one. If they keep evolving them, there could be four or five decent builds for each spec. As it is, I see no real options for resto or elemental. It's like you are forced to take all the talents that you can take. This definitely has to change.

[vryu]

so what about frozen power talent?
that snare is dam useful..

[Littlenino]

so what about frozen power talent?
that snare is dam useful..

now that I look at it... I only looked at this mainly from a pve perspective... and now that I look at it more closely, we got screwed out of our only useful gap closer for pvp.

[Deleted]

I only play elemental and resto, so wasn't interested in looking at enhancement. So far, elemental is shaping up nicely. I want to see earthquake in action before I judge it. Resto isn't too bad so far, either. Guess we just wait and see how they shape up. They definitely need to change a fair number of the talents to make them exciting and interesting; but the same can be said for all class's trees -- some a lot more than others.

---------- Post added 2010-07-14 at 03:13 PM ----------



They will be receiving a lot of feedback over the next few weeks, so expect there to be quite a lot of changes as the trees transition from where they are at now to a better idea of what they had in mind when they said "cool" and "fun". That said, I can see that we will have a few options in any given one. If they keep evolving them, there could be four or five decent builds for each spec. As it is, I see no real options for resto or elemental. It's like you are forced to take all the talents that you can take. This definitely has to change.

Earthquake at lvl 80 with ~3600 SP and ~40% crit chance does 1,5-2k dmg per hit and ~3-4k dmg crits. how often it deps on haste but for premade char its every 0,85 sec

---------- Post added 2010-07-14 at 07:37 AM ----------

now that I look at it... I only looked at this mainly from a pve perspective... and now that I look at it more closely, we got screwed out of our only useful gap closer for pvp.

You dont get screwed

Mages have snare but no longer have pushback resistance
Locks have pushback resistance but now have only 12% chance on conflagrate with 2/2 talent to daze target for 5sec, conflag has 10sec cd:P
other melee classes etc lost mobility
Arms war CANT use shields anymore or dual wield, Prot cant use 2h, Fury cant use shields

---------- Post added 2010-07-14 at 07:39 AM ----------

Im honestly disgusted at the changes. No More Penance, Shadowstep, Corpse Explosion, or Divine Storm. And if the 50 talent points is correct instead of 76, they've killed any hope of hybridizing a spec.

And im disgusted at your stupidity and lack of reading comprehension.

Scroll down noobcake and youll see all those skills are still there, obtainable at lvl 10

[Foxhoundn]

Id say this for enha: http://www.wowtal.com/#k=Zwwk9IY4.9mn.shaman

Also why there are 2 talents that are increasing damage of fire nova???

[Sarevokcz]

so what about frozen power talent?
that snare is dam useful..

Yea, I noticed Ele lost Astral shift, too, that will really HURT eleshammies in pvp :/

[Mefesto]

Im pissed at the enhancement talents I wanted something new and cool, we just got the the same thing but condensed.

[Sarevokcz]

by the way, was i nt looking properly or did elementals just freaking lost the half a second shorter casts? are they effin kidding me?

[Shokzman]

now that I look at it... I only looked at this mainly from a pve perspective... and now that I look at it more closely, we got screwed out of our only useful gap closer for pvp.

I agree.

[C Rage]

I like what they, in theory. The problem is that there is a net loss in this set up. To even get close to what I have right now, I need about another five points.

It doesn't feel like what they were talking about in Blizzcon for more fun talents. I feel forced into a single spec once again, but nowhere near enough points to cover vital abilities.

This needs to go back into the oven and cook some more.

[BagOfChips]

I'll wait until they're farther along, thank you.

[myrddinde]

Im pissed at the enhancement talents I wanted something new and cool, we just got the the same thing but condensed.

Likewise, Frozen Power is gone and elemental fury went baseline to elemental spec, it sno longer good for us

[ScorchHellfire]

I'm trying to withhold my judgement but as they are right now all of the trees are just plain... disappointing...

[Gunwolf]

Very disappointed. Seems like Blizzard did not put any effort into our talents, decided to go easy on themselves and just condensed everything. I don't get any feel of being able to customize, or pick utility along with dps.

I'm confused why certain lame talents still appear....
-Toughness. 10% stam that no one has points for. Should be combined with Elem Warding 6% less dmg.
-Elem Devestation. Melee crit based off spell crit....doesn't make any sense to me. No one at that level even has enough crit to benefit, and at endgame it's good for enhance only.
-We lost Elem Fury which was crucial for enhance.
-We lost Frozen Power.


Only good thing I saw was merging 2 talents into Ancestral Swiftness.

Blizz really let themselves go and it shows in this crap. All this time, money, and "effort" and all we get are gutted trees. =/

[Northy]

Any PvPer would tell you the current Earthquake is trash. It'll be like a big red sign over our heads that says INTERRUPT ME NOW PLEASE! Des and I debated this the other day (I won lol). Any true PvPer will not channel an AoE in any circumstance. Eles job is to keep pressure high / shear / hex / ground blah blah. We cannot do that if we're channeling a spell.

Here's my idea: Make Earthquake not channeled but rather just have a cast time (like they had briefly before making it channeled). So, say 2 sec cast time. You cast Earthquake on a location on the ground and that ground trembles (mind you this is happening while you are not channeling it), but instead of making it a proc rate on the knockdown just have the last tick of damage knock all enemies down (the last thing we want is another DnD debacle. And I despise RNG spells like Earthquake). That way you can use it proactively or reactively.

For instance, you know a warrior is about to charge you, so you cast Earthquake at your feet and commence with the usual rotation of spells against the warrior. At the same time your enemy can choose to stay in and just deal with the aoe and knockdown at the end, or get out and possibly take the fight elsewhere. It's useful against casters too in that you could cast it at their feet forcing them to decide whether to keep casting at you or move out before the knockback occurs. Either way it's win because if they're moving they're not casting.

You can also make Earthquake do less damage since we'd be able to cast spells while it's happening. It'll act more like an aoe dot.