Overall, I'm pretty meh on the feral tree. Having playing feral since launch, I've ridden the highs and lows. While pulverize and fury strikes seem nice. Infected wounds, still a talent i like but I don't know that it will be super useful in raids if they make things immune to slows or snares.
I don't know. I was looking for some wow factor and I'm just not seeing it. Why no increase to bark skin's effect through talents like DK's IBF. On the other hand I am excited about thrash.
To be honest, I'm a little worried about bear survivability vs other tanks. I'd love to see some parses comparing the various tanks soon.
For all those worried/disappointed about your spec... you need to remember this is only BETA... meaning there will be changes that go into effect between now and when Cata goes Live...
That being said... for those of you that joined WoW after TBC, you may not know this... but they are possibly reverting Omen back to a self-cast buff that was trainable at like lvl 20, that lasts 30 mins and gave a chance on Spellcast/melee hit to give Clearcasting... in TBC they converted it to a Talent in the Resto Tree...
and as far as I am concerned... I like the way the talents are going thus far... it reminds me of my old specs in Vanilla and early TBC for pvp/pve
Another thing to keep in mind is that they haven't told us what they'll be changing for sure in the Glyph system... so many of the effects lost to us in the talent revamp may find itself in the Glyph system as Major/Medium/Minor Glyphs to allow more customization between players/play-styles... which is what I hope for. The months to come for the Beta will be interesting to watch and see what is done to our class... cross your fingers and hope for the best
Well, according to the new 31-point talent trees, a pure cat spec is no longer even possible. We have to spec into points completely useless to our PvE DPS, just to move to the next tier. It appears that Blizzard's solution to "eliminating the filler talents" is to make us spec into tanking points instead.
And no more Primal Fury effect for cats? Is this a joke? That talent is a large part of the reason Feral gameplay is so fun! If cats are only able to get one combo point per CP move, eliminating the RNG from crits, we're just moving closer and closer to a boring, predictable rotation. And god knows we don't want to be Ret Pallies.
"We want to make the Feral cat damage rotation slightly more forgiving. We do not want to remove what druids like about their gameplay, but we do want to make it less punishing to miss, say, a Savage Roar or Rake."
How do you miss a Rake? It's one button, available every GCD. The bleed lasts for 15 seconds, when specced into it (which won't be hard, considering that cats won't even have enough useful talents to fill with our points). If it falls off, all you have to do is push the button - nothing special. One different button, every 15 seconds. Anyone who can't manage that doesn't simply 'lack skill.' Moreover, our 3rd Mastery benefit is, you guessed it: Increases damage from bleed effects (Cat Form). Cat damage = bleeds. Anyone who fails to keep up the most basic bleed also deserves to fail on the meters.
And no more talents to reduce the energy cost of Shred? It will cost 50 energy. That means we will spend half the fight waiting on our energy bars just to be able to use our bread and butter combo point attack.
Oh yeah, and bears don't even have a talent to reduce the incoming crit chance by 6%. Conclusion: bears won't be able to tank and cats won't have a real spec. Sweet.
EDIT: I know that this is just the first release of the new trees and we're still deep in the Beta. But really, Feral is this bad? They should just make the Nom Nom Nom talent always applicable.
Last edited by Minotaure; 2010-07-14 at 08:04 PM.
And this is Beta... and Druid Talents are behind in their updating, meaning they still need tweeking/changes to be what the Devs want them to really look like. So Feral Cat looks fine still... and Bears will be fine when they get their 6% Crit reduced back... otherwise the talent changes are really to minimize the difference between a Feral PvP or PvE spec... all... though a talent doesn't increase your dmg doesn't make it useless... because all of our dmg is being given to us through the passive bonus's.
Edit: Damn site maintenance messing up my posts! Dx
Last edited by RyuOnatomay; 2010-07-14 at 08:41 PM.
It seems no one here reads patch notes:
"While this is a first pass on all of the talent trees, death knight, druid, paladin, warlock, Arcane mage, and Assassination rogue trees are not as far along as other specializations."
Straight from the latest patch notes... just about everything druid is broken regarding the talent trees at the moment... Mangle doesn't even work. Give it another minor patch or two and it will all get worked out.
When they say the Feral tree is done, then you can start complaining about it.
Last edited by reygahnci; 2010-07-14 at 09:18 PM. Reason: sig change
My question: why not forget the Haste Energy effect, let crits still grant two CPs, and let player skill and experience determine how those RNG combo points are used? They are eliminating an aspect of Feral gameplay that makes the spec as fun as it is, and replacing it with a system that will only give them problems in the future.
And the idea of the new talent trees is to give players less options and to make them choose between several valuable talent points. With this current build (again, I realize that this is early Beta), cats can grab every single PvE DPS point and still have 5+ extra points. There are no choices. The rest of the points may help survivability, but why should players who know how to listen to DBM need survival talents? If you can't move out of fire or avoid boss cleaves, then maybe you should spec into the 10% less magic damage taken or increased armor. But why should that be your best option with your remaining talent points if you play well enough to never have those issues to begin with?
---------- Post added 2010-07-14 at 05:30 PM ----------
Last edited by Minotaure; 2010-07-14 at 09:31 PM.
I understand that this is the beta. This is what I posted on the official form about the Feral tree in it's current state as how it relates to Feral Kitty PvE and Feral Bear PvE:
I would like to say that the Feral Druid Talent flow needs work.
First I would like to say so far, nice job on the talent tree. It really does look a whole lot cleaner. My issue right now is the fact that there is there seems to be a talent flow issue if one is trying to go just pve kitty or pve bear.
PvE Kitty Only;
Tier 1: Both talents need to be filled in order to move on.
Tier 2: The first obvious choice is Fury Swipes to have a chance at an extra auto-attack. One also will most likely pick up Feral Swiftness to allow for faster run speed (and not have to enchant for Boars speed). Primal Fury is a bear only talent so pve kitties will not pick this up. Infected wounds is a conundrum, since it's more of a PvP kitty or a bear/hybrid ability. Unless your leveling as kitty or in a guild who needs someone to target switch a lot, most pve kitties will not pick this up.
Tier 3: King of the Jungle, Feral Charge, and Improved Feral Charge are all talents kitties will get. KotJ allows for 60 free energy every minute, Feral Charge if you need to target switch or trying to get into position behind the boss at the beginning of the fight. Improved Feral Charge for that initial ravage bonus. Thick Hide would generally be considered a tanking talent or a hybrid talent and generally will not be picked up by PvE kitties.
Here is where things start to get a little tricky for kitty druids
Tier 4: Leader of the Pack is a given for everyone. Brutal Impact will be picked up my kitties for the 10 second cooldown on our new Skull Bash Ability (aka our kick). Nurturing Instinct is considered a PvP ability and with the higher health pools that we have, we should not be needing to pick up this ability for PvE reasons.
But here is the first of two conundrum that kitties have at this point. If we go by what I suggested as being Kitty only abilities up to this point, one is looking at 19 points with 1 point we cannot put in any other pve only talent.
We HAVE to choose to put 1 point into either Infected wounds (tanking/pvp talent), Thick Hide (tanking talent), or Nurturing Instict (PvP talent).
Let's assume we put one point into either of those talents just to make it to the next tier:
Tier 5: Primal madness increasing our maximum energy by 20; with the help of haste; theoretically allows for faster energy regen while Tiger's Fury and Berserking are up. Because of this, kitties will be picking up this talent. Endless Carnage increases the duration of Rake and Savage Roar by 3/6 seconds, which helps with the kitty rotation tremendously. One suggestion on the tooltip though, the wording seems a bit awkward to read. "Increases your Rake by 3/6 seconds and your Savage Roar and Pulverize by 3/6 seconds." Should that not be changed to something like: "Increases your Rake, Savage Roar, and Pulverize abilities by 3/6 sec." Natural Reaction is a Bear only/Hybrid ability and will not be taken by PvE Kitties. As for Survival Instincts, this is one those talents that any feral druid could use, whether it's for Pve Kitty, PvP kitty, and most definitely for Bear tanking. The ability is one of those "Oh ****" buttons that helps keep ferals alive. I love it in Wrath PvE content, and I'll continue to use it in Cata. As for the topic at hand, I'll come back to this ability, but for now it's not REQUIRED for kitty PvE but a good "Choice" talent to pick from.
Which if you have not been following, we are now up to 24 points if we only choose Primal Madness and Endless Carnage.
One could put a second point into either Infected Wounds, Thick Hide, or Nurturing Instinct; but if you ask me, I would put that extra talent point into Survival Instincts.
Tier 6: Nom Nom Nom is a must have for kitties since this basically gives us our Execute ability. That and KEEP THE NAME! With that out of the way, we look at Rend and Tear which increases our damage with Shred (our bread and butter ability) and Ferocious Bite (our last resort ability during the bulk of the fight, and our execute ability). Pulverize is a Bear/Hybrid ability and most PvE kitties will not pick this up.
Tier 7: Berserk is our 31 point talent and it's a great talent to have. This is a given talent that all Ferals will pick up.
With that we can now look at the other trees.
Kitties going into Boomkin tree:
Unfortunately, Ferals in general cannot go into this tree since none of the Tier 1 talents provide any benefit to ferals. Natures Grace, Starlight Wrath, and Genesis all deal with spells, which Feral abilities do not fall under.
Given that, we cannot benefit from Boomkin abilities at all since we cannot even get past the first tier, let alone the first talent in the tree.
Kitties going into Resto tree:
Since we are forced into this second tree, we have to look at what it has to offer.
Tier 1: Blessing of the Grove increases our shred ability by 2/4% which all kitties will be taking. Natural
Shapeshifter lowers our transformation ability by 10/20/30%. Furor has a 20/40/60% chance to grant 20/40/60 energy when we shapeshift into kitty form. Both of these are optional and not required for PvE kitty.
Tier 2: If you do decide to put 2 points into Natural Shapeshifter or Furor, then the only talent we can pick up here is Perseverance. This lessons the amount of spell damage done to us, but in general this is mostly a PvP or tanking ability and not required for kitty PvE.
Overall, if we only have to put two points into BotG, we are allowed to put 8 points in where-ever we want. Having the extra talents is fine just I wish we had better options in the Resto or even Boomkin tree. The fact that we have to put a single point in a hybrid/tanking/pvp talent at level 48 seems odd. We have to live with that odd choice for the rest of the tree in order for us to get down to our 31-talent point. Again we have an odd-ball choice one has to make at level 58 as well, but that one is less of a guilt choice than our lvl 48 choice (Survival Instinct or one more point into a hybrid/tanking/pvp talent).
With the Kitty talents out of the way, I'll look at what bears will most likely be picking up
Tier 1: as with the kitty talents, both of these are required to move further down the tree.
Tier 2: Infected wounds is a tanking talent that all tanks have a version that they also pick up. Slowing a mob's attack speed lowers the amount of damage bears take. Fury Swipes is a threat talent that allows for an extra auto attack that a) generates more threat and b) generates more rage. Feral Swiftness will be picked up since it supplies a flat 2/4% dodge. Finally Primal Fury will be taken by bears since it gives 5 rage for every critical strike we do in bear form.
Tier 3: Unfortunately, due to the nature of the ability of enrage, where it decreases our armor by 27/16% in Bear and Dire Bear form respectfully, most druids even today do not pick up King of the Jungle talent unless they are currently wearing 4-piece Tier 10 which negates that armor reduction portion of the ability. Thus, Bears will not be picking up this talent, as well as Primal Madness in Tier 5. Feral Charge and Improved Feral Charge will both be taken by bears. Feral Charge is a great utility ability, and the 15/30% haste is great for burst threat on the charge mob. Thick Hide is required so that bears can have as much, if not more, armor than the other plate wearing tanks.
Tier 4: Leader of the Pack is a given and all ferals will be picking up this talent. Brutal Impact is going to be one of those major optional talents to pick up. With the addition of Skull bash, bears finally have a reliable interrupt. Currently our only interrupt is on a 1 minute (50 seconds if talented) cooldown. All other tanks have interrupt abilities with a lot shorter cooldown. This talent would put us in line with Death Knights in interrupt abilities. At this point however, this talent would be optional and not required to be picked up. Though as stated, this is one of those good choice talents to get. Nurturing Instinct is a PvP talent and the secondary part of the talent is a kitty only ability, so it is not taken by Bears
Tier 5: As stated before, because bears will not be picking up King of the Jungle, they cannot pick up Primal Madness. However there are reports that the first point of this talent is supply 0 rage, while the second point supplies 12 rage. I hope this is a mistake and that the first point supplies 6 rage instead of 0 rage. Survival Instincts is a great talent to pick up as bear and that most will pick up that talent. Endless Carnage will also be picked up to increase our Pulverize ability by 6 seconds. I'm curious why this talent would be placed here, before bears would pick up the Pulverize ability in the next tier. Finally bears will be getting Natural Reaction for the flat 2/4% dodge and the dodge-to-rage generation.
Tier 6: Nom Nom Nom is a kitty only talent and bears will not be picking up that talent. Rend and Tear is going to be an iffy talent to pick up since it will increase just our Maul ability by 12%. Since Maul is going to be used a lot less than it is today, I'm wondering how useful this ability will be for tanking. As of right now, I'll be picking up this talent, but it is going to be a talent that needs to be looked at for bears. Finally Pulverize allows us to change up our single target rotation up a bit, and all bears will pick this up.
Tier 7: Berserk is our 31-talent point and all ferals will pick this up for the burst dps/threat.
Bears in the Boomkin Tree:
Since all three of the Boomkin Tier 1 talents all deal with spells, Ferals have no use for speccing into the Boomkin tree.
Feral Bear in the Resto tree.
Tier 1: Blessing of the Grove will not be picked up since there are no Bear abilities associated with that talent. That leaves Natural Shapeshifter and Furor. Both of these are considered stepping stones to the Tier 2 talents.
Tier 2: Perseverance will probably be taken by all tanks since it supplies a 2/4/6% damage reduction in the amount of spell damage we take.
Overall Bears are a more closely-knit package compared to kitties. Bears have 2 extra points they can put into other talents (most likely Brutal Impact) compared to the 8 extra talents kitties can put into other talents.
My big complaint with the Feral tree, and with many others for that matter (Affliction locks spring to mind) is that the original design attempt was to remove filler and increase diversity. I do not think the new trees follow this philosophy. In WotLK, my favorite types of builds to read about on EJ and other theorycrafting sites were the kind that said "get these talents, then put the last 4-5 points wherever you want." Now, it feels like you're being forced to take talents you don't really want or need just to move on to the next group of talents you actually want. It wouldn't be so bad if some of these talents were utility talents, but a lot of them are PvP or hybrid talents. I understand that changes will happen, but so far, things look even more restrictive than they were before. I think the reasoning behind the talent changes is sound, but they still need a lot of work.
So far, the only thing I've seen that has truly made me panic, however, is that Primal Fury is gone. I'm hoping that they're making it into a core class mechanic rather than a talent, but we'll just have to wait and see.
NOES!!!1 wheres my 'Nom nom nom' ( i shant be rolling a druid cata till i get my nom nom nom.
Balance needs "fun"talents in feral tree
Feral needs valid choices in the balance tree
Resto needs more choices in the feral tree
Now its just:
Not really any choices
Druid resto-tree question. There's talent Empowered Touch
1/2: 50% chance to refresh lifebloom duration
2/2: 0% chance to refresh lifebloom duration
Is this just a typo and should 2/2 be 100% instead? Doesn't make sense.
There are a lot of typos, you just need to use common sense and don't take for granted what the talents show, because, well, its f**king obvious that it's not 0% at rank 2 if rank 1 gives 50%.
hoping the get beta to test the new Moonkin spells out. If not im over reading beta testers posts ;p
What i was wondering though is if anyone have read about new forms for us moonkins? i wouldnt mind a white chicken tbh ;o
And im yet to like the new talent trees, i like how our current once is;<
The new balance tree isn't even out yet. That thing you can see here and in the beta client is just there so druids can play at all.