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  1. #41
    My only hope is that they at frost bolt and frostfirebolt to FoF in later beta patches cuz for now thats kinda of a big ass nurrrffffffff

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    i...i don't want to believe that there are actually people on here who still can't read. out of all the trees shown (and they're calling the it the first pass), arcane is one of the trees that is far behind the others. so are your damn rogues


    skljhckchqcjs
    cajhcs,jahgcs
    asjcghaljksca
    read.
    Ah ok, so they are going to make arcane mages and rogue trees as bad as the fire tree choices, roger. Thanks for the info.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    i...i don't want to believe that there are actually people on here who still can't read. out of all the trees shown (and they're calling the it the first pass), arcane is one of the trees that is far behind the others. so are your damn rogues


    skljhckchqcjs
    cajhcs,jahgcs
    asjcghaljksca
    read.
    It is not about being able to read or not, it is about giving feedack and letting others know what you think. Since the information is released whether it is complete or not, why not talk about it rather than waiting and watching it going the wrong direction. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinions.

    btw, i like your signature, kind of unique "skljhckchqcjs cajhcs,jahgcs asjcghaljksca read."
    Last edited by selinek; 2010-07-14 at 08:41 PM.

  4. #44
    This thread is full of stupidity.

    Taking utility talents isn't a bad thing. Oh no, you get to have slow in your raid spec! HOW AWFUL TO HAVE AN EXTRA SPELL! If spells like that are requirements, then they will obviously balance the dps talents you can and can't take. Blizzard isn't full of idiots. If they force you to take a utility talent it isn't going to make your dps worse. Why? Because they balance around the fact that you are required to spend a point on that talent.

    Do ret paladins do solid dps on live? If your answer is no, then go away. For the rest of us, Repentence is a required talent. It does nothing for them in pve, yet they still dps just fine. Strange, amirite?

    This thread has too much QQ, but on to my thoughts...

    I think the trees seems relatively uninteresting. My least favorite things are improved counterspell being arcane-only, as well as shattered barrier actually requiring extra talent points. Both of these should just be integrated into the spells, imo. If not that, then iCS should be a first-tier talent. Regardless of what happens to either talent they should both be 1 point talents.

    Some things still look kind of boring, some look nice. I have high hopes for the trees once they are fully polished, though. This is pretty decent for a first incarnation imo.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by selinek View Post
    It is not about being able to read or not, it is about giving feedack and letting others know what you think. Since the information is released whether it is complete or not, why not talk about it rather than waiting and watching it going the wrong direction. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinions.

    btw, i like your signature, kind of unique "skljhckchqcjs cajhcs,jahgcs asjcghaljksca read."
    i'm not saying "don't give feedback", all i'm saying is don't say "arcane and assassination seem underwhelming/incomplete" when blizzard has said that, "hey derp, they're incomplete". it's like giving a milk review with the primary feedback being, "ITS A WAIT LIQEED".

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by gpizza View Post
    Can someone in beta clarify the cast time on high level frostbolt/fireball/pyro in this build? The op has 2.0/2.5/3.5 with clearly high level damage listed, and the mouseover just has the live server level 1 live version. Pretty big change if it's real.
    So is anyone able to check this out yet? Also if the servers are stable enough maybe check the coefficients to see if empowered talents are baked in now or what?

  7. #47
    Things I would like to see change.

    Burning Soul in Tier 1, switched with Master of Elements.
    Imp Counterspell switched with TTW.
    Change Blazing Speed to work like an improvement to Blastwave, similar to the Icy Veins glyph. The requirement will make more sense.
    Change Hot Streak to a stacking physical buff that reduces the cast time of Pyroblast.
    Change Frostbite to the Imp Cone of Cold talent.

  8. #48
    This thread is full of stupidity.

    Taking utility talents isn't a bad thing. Oh no, you get to have slow in your raid spec! HOW AWFUL TO HAVE AN EXTRA SPELL! If spells like that are requirements, then they will obviously balance the dps talents you can and can't take. Blizzard isn't full of idiots. If they force you to take a utility talent it isn't going to make your dps worse. Why? Because they balance around the fact that you are required to spend a point on that talent.

    Do ret paladins do solid dps on live? If your answer is no, then go away. For the rest of us, Repentence is a required talent. It does nothing for them in pve, yet they still dps just fine. Strange, amirite?

    This thread has too much QQ, but on to my thoughts...

    I think the trees seems relatively uninteresting. My least favorite things are improved counterspell being arcane-only, as well as shattered barrier actually requiring extra talent points. Both of these should just be integrated into the spells, imo. If not that, then iCS should be a first-tier talent. Regardless of what happens to either talent they should both be 1 point talents.

    Some things still look kind of boring, some look nice. I have high hopes for the trees once they are fully polished, though. This is pretty decent for a first incarnation imo.
    Well put, it's weird how people deem everything that isn't a flat dps increase useless or stupid. Honestly if there is actually no dps talents for you to take then you're not wasting points you're just investing in some utility which leads to your end talent. Saying this is boring ins unjustified because even with this first take on talents you have some choice, unlike at the moment.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by dieseledge View Post
    Things I would like to see change.

    Burning Soul in Tier 1, switched with Master of Elements. Why? we don't know how normalized spell pushback is and arcane and frost may have it built in already.
    Imp Counterspell switched with TTW. Too generous of a change which would still make the first two tiers of arcane retardedly good for all specs. switch imp CS with arcane repulsion instead.
    Change Blazing Speed to work like an improvement to Blastwave, similar to the Icy Veins glyph. The requirement will make more sense. What requirement? Just make blazing speed an "on use" thing which is what many mages, myself included, have been asking for for a very long time.
    Change Hot Streak to a stacking physical buff that reduces the cast time of Pyroblast. Dear god no, just increase the time frame by 2-4 seconds. Don't forget that all crits, DoTs included will count towards this, so multi dotting heavily increases hot streak uptime.
    Change Frostbite to the Imp Cone of Cold talent. Yes
    responded in quote.

  10. #50
    Burning Soul in Tier 1, switched with Master of Elements. Why? we don't know how normalized spell pushback is and arcane and frost may have it built in already.
    I'm making the suggestion based on information we do have and what my guess on what would actually be missing. My guess atm is that mages have a lack of pushback protection. It's not an unfounded fear.

    Imp Counterspell switched with TTW. Too generous of a change which would still make the first two tiers of arcane retardedly good for all specs. switch imp CS with arcane repulsion instead.
    TTW is considered a more powerful talent for Frost and Fire specs than arcane repulsion, considering it only works for Mage armor. Your suggestion would actually make the first 2 tiers better than my suggestion. Plus, if you put Imp CS in tier 2, you are practically requiring all pvp mages to go at least 7 points into arcane and you might as well make it 9 with the blink talent.

    Change Blazing Speed to work like an improvement to Blastwave, similar to the Icy Veins glyph. The requirement will make more sense. What requirement? Just make blazing speed an "on use" thing which is what many mages, myself included, have been asking for for a very long time.
    It's shown in screenshots of the talent trees that you are required to take blastwave to get blazing speed.

    Change Hot Streak to a stacking physical buff that reduces the cast time of Pyroblast. Dear god no, just increase the time frame by 2-4 seconds. Don't forget that all crits, DoTs included will count towards this, so multi dotting heavily increases hot streak uptime.
    Can't really disagree but more because I'm having trouble keeping track of Hot Streak because they are constantly changing the talent in so many ways.

    Change Frostbite to the Imp Cone of Cold talent. Yes
    hooray
    Last edited by dieseledge; 2010-07-15 at 02:43 AM.

  11. #51
    my point about pushback stemmed from the fact that all other caster DPS have it worked into their masteries. it may end up being worked into the arcane mastery since fire has the talent and frost has ice barrier/IV.

  12. #52
    Something i don't get, look at for example arcane blast it says "7% of base mana" what do they mean by that? it looks like if you cast 7 arcane blast your allmost oom, but it can't be like that

  13. #53
    I wonder why they done with the critcal damage bonus of every talent tree I mean this is a big nerfe for every spec of the mages

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxema View Post
    Something i don't get, look at for example arcane blast it says "7% of base mana" what do they mean by that? it looks like if you cast 7 arcane blast your allmost oom, but it can't be like that
    Base Mana refers to the amount of mana you have before gear/spec/gems/chants/ect. You can look up base mana per class/race on wowhead. I forget exactly where but it is out there.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Multigasm View Post
    Base Mana refers to the amount of mana you have before gear/spec/gems/chants/ect. You can look up base mana per class/race on wowhead. I forget exactly where but it is out there.
    ^
    Or you can completely strip your character and see how much mana you have.

  16. #56
    So I was goofing around on the beta last night on the frost mage I have and was questing through Hyjal when i noticed that my Ice Lance was critting for nearly 10k. I then noticed that I could spam it and it would crit for 10k every GCD. Now this confused me...

    Eventually found out Fingers of Frost doesnt lose charge while the buff is up, so everytime it went up I just started to spam Ice Lance and everything died in 2 hits.

    GG

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by starkilleralfa View Post
    I wonder why they done with the critcal damage bonus of every talent tree I mean this is a big nerfe for every spec of the mages
    All those talents have been removed from other classes. You're making the same mistake, many people are falling for atm. Stop assuming that nothing is changing outside the talent trees.

  18. #58
    but but ... what about the elemental shaman ? elemental fury ? what about that ?

  19. #59
    from the front page
    "Those are actually the decisions we're looking for. Trying to decide between dps and utility isn't a decision (for PvE anyway) and choosing damage vs. damage is a decision most players make by going to third party sites. We want you to be able to get all of the damage talents you reasonably can, and be making decisions over the utility talents."

    Essentially, there are NO meaningful decisions you can possibly make in PVE.


    I don't understand, really, I don't. They say they want fewer, but more meaningful decisions; they say that they want the player to choose talents that fit his/her playstyle..... and yet, we're forced to take talents that do not fit our playstyle, and as such, are completely and entirely useless.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by dieseledge View Post
    www-.wowtal.com/#k=tOuuDZKa.9mn.mage

    IDK being able to pick up Blastwave and DB without getting shit on by your raid leader seems kinda nice.

    well i wanna use something like this www-.wowtal.com/#k=vm-KBGYYv.9mn.mage clearcast + arcane potency will support your mana+add some crits that dot... well i dont think, that you need the 10% manareduce from the frosttree after a while. And about improved flamestrike: ah you should give a sh... for this lame AE. Molten Shields will gove you maybe extra dmg if it works on AE-spells casted by the boss but his point is free to set imo

    idears?

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