Cataclysm - Build 12479 - Rogue

[Wingedtoast]

A question to anyone that actually knows, as I have not yet seen anything on this... But what on earth is our combo point generator in Cata then? I'd assume Mutilate, but that doesn't account for a Backstab only talent being so deep in our tree.. Do we abandon Mutilate at <35% and Backstab exclusively? So we're competitive damage, when the boss is 2/3's dead?

[Brontotaurus]

It is a bit numbercrunching, but if you take Lethality, Puncturing Wounds and Opportunity, Backstab will gain +15% crit chance more than Mutilate.

Considering you need 60 energy to use both, whereafter you are refunded 30 in the 35%-killzone with Backstab if you took Murderous Intent, and assuming a 50% buffed crit chance with Mutilate and 65% with Backstab you will have to choose if you want to use Mutilate for an average of 2.5 CP (with Sealed Fate) or Backstab twice for a combined average of 3.3 CPs.

As you can see all in all Backstab seems to net you more CPs per energy (within that 35% killzone) than Mutilate. BUT at a slower pace.
On the other hand it prevents the chance to "waste" a CP when you have 3 on the target and then using Mutilate which could grant you another 3 of which one would be wasted.

Which leaves us with the personal weighing of minor points, like positioning. I personally dislike using a "behind the mob"-move on bosses that tend to face random raid members. Then again Mutilate seems to have lost it's dagger-restriction, although that is offset by the passive dagger-damage boost of the assassination tree. All personal preferences. Same for the issue with the crit-cap that Muti already hit somewhat on high gearlevels in Wrath. Nothing to worry about at the start of raiding in Cata though i guess.

I might give the Backstab approach a chot in Cata, all depends on how much i like it and how it "feels" to me.

[zixi]

It is a bit numbercrunching, but if you take Lethality, Puncturing Wounds and Opportunity, Backstab will gain +15% crit chance more than Mutilate.

Considering you need 60 energy to use both, whereafter you are refunded 30 in the 35%-killzone with Backstab if you took Murderous Intent, and assuming a 50% buffed crit chance with Mutilate and 65% with Backstab you will have to choose if you want to use Mutilate for an average of 2.5 CP (with Sealed Fate) or Backstab twice for a combined average of 3.3 CPs.

As you can see all in all Backstab seems to net you more CPs per energy (within that 35% killzone) than Mutilate. BUT at a slower pace.
On the other hand it prevents the chance to "waste" a CP when you have 3 on the target and then using Mutilate which could grant you another 3 of which one would be wasted.

Which leaves us with the personal weighing of minor points, like positioning. I personally dislike using a "behind the mob"-move on bosses that tend to face random raid members. Then again Mutilate seems to have lost it's dagger-restriction, although that is offset by the passive dagger-damage boost of the assassination tree. All personal preferences. Same for the issue with the crit-cap that Muti already hit somewhat on high gearlevels in Wrath. Nothing to worry about at the start of raiding in Cata though i guess.

I might give the Backstab approach a chot in Cata, all depends on how much i like it and how it "feels" to me.

+ Glyph of Backstab - Your Backstab critical strikes grant you 5 energy.

25 energy cost for Backstab with murderous intent,it's basically going to be a spammfest and rogues are getting their "Execute" move...

I like it,this could be brutal

[Wingedtoast]

It is a bit numbercrunching, but if you take Lethality, Puncturing Wounds and Opportunity, Backstab will gain +15% crit chance more than Mutilate.

Considering you need 60 energy to use both, whereafter you are refunded 30 in the 35%-killzone with Backstab if you took Murderous Intent, and assuming a 50% buffed crit chance with Mutilate and 65% with Backstab you will have to choose if you want to use Mutilate for an average of 2.5 CP (with Sealed Fate) or Backstab twice for a combined average of 3.3 CPs.

As you can see all in all Backstab seems to net you more CPs per energy (within that 35% killzone) than Mutilate. BUT at a slower pace.
On the other hand it prevents the chance to "waste" a CP when you have 3 on the target and then using Mutilate which could grant you another 3 of which one would be wasted.

Which leaves us with the personal weighing of minor points, like positioning. I personally dislike using a "behind the mob"-move on bosses that tend to face random raid members. Then again Mutilate seems to have lost it's dagger-restriction, although that is offset by the passive dagger-damage boost of the assassination tree. All personal preferences. Same for the issue with the crit-cap that Muti already hit somewhat on high gearlevels in Wrath. Nothing to worry about at the start of raiding in Cata though i guess.

I might give the Backstab approach a chot in Cata, all depends on how much i like it and how it "feels" to me.

Thank you helped a lot.. I'll be honest, I'll probably return to Combat in Cata.. Keep a muti offspec

[aikouka]

Regarding the new T11 set bonuses, I wonder if Blizzard can include some logic to ensure Cold Blood is used before Deadly Scheme. It'd allow you to use CB over DS to keep CB on cooldown and also could avoid any anomalies like hitting CB, you melee swing, proc DS as you are going to Envenom. It is a fairly fringe case though, but some people might prefer still enabling CB and using that since DS has a relatively long duration (15s) and low enough of a proc rate that the chance of overwriting isn't as high.

[Neichus]

Okay, so I haven't been keeping the closest of tabs on Rogue changes these last few patches but when in the world did they change Venomous Wounds to also include, "If any enemy dies while afflicted by your Rupture, you regain Energy proportional to the remaining Rupture duration"? I don't recall ever reading that in patch notes, but it's certainly a nice addition to the talent.

[critterkiller]

I really hope they got rid of Redirect, and maybe (prays to god and lights a candle) they even made CP's build on the rogue instead of the target? I would burst into tears of nerd-joy if that was the case!

/NO not gonna happen (the CP on rogue part)
Reason? Massive QQ from pvpers that a rogue can build 5 CPs on one target and then stun a different and the ngo back to the old target...

[Ithildine]

/NO not gonna happen (the CP on rogue part)
Reason? Massive QQ from pvpers that a rogue can build 5 CPs on one target and then stun a different and the ngo back to the old target...

I really hope they got rid of Redirect, and maybe (prays to god and lights a candle) they even made CP's build on the rogue instead of the target? I would burst into tears of nerd-joy if that was the case!

PVP QQ...
Maybe they could change Redirect to be passive with no CD : your combo points would follow you only when your target dies. It would prevent a lot of abuse in pvp.

[Neichus]

I've always liked CPs being target-linked. It felt like it was just part of playing a good Rogue to understand how much longer you have on a target and when to prepare for a transfer. When I first saw Redirect I didn't think it was some sort of poor offering on Blizzard's part for not having self-CPs, I saw it as a nice ability to help cover for mistakes. Things happen and sometimes your target dies with 5 CPs, or perhaps things are dying too quickly to get enough CPs for a proper rotation. In both cases Redirect helps smooth over these situations, but it's not meant to negate the whole mechanic.