Variety, no more... Or?

[Deleted]

How will it be any different than it currently is?

"Oh god your spec is terrible... Go look up what you *should* be on EJ and then I'll invite you"

People will shit on each other's specs for a few points regardless of how big the trees are.

Second this, theres no variety at all in this game. Its spec into THIS or be a noob forever. "But I liekz BM!" kk no raids for you! Said the GM

[Clusterfuck]

To add something constructive to the OP..

Personally I thought they were going to completely change many of the cooler talents and remove the fluff talents. They have removed the fluff talents but haven't changed the other ones (yet). What we have at this stage are talent trees with no variety what so ever that leave not much room for messing up. Although I realize it is not like we have much variety now as we all use cookie cutter specs designed by someone who has crunched the numbers but that does not mean that we cannot hope for a day when we can have 3 combat rogues in one raid group with 3 completely different specs that play differently but with the right skill can do the same damage...

What I would like to see are much cooler trees that really make you anxious about where to put your next talent point, not because of being afraid of messing up but because you cannot decide which bad-ass talent to choose.

[ScorchHellfire]

Blizzard said they wanted all the talents to be meaningful choices... I see nothing of the sort in these new trees... they are filled with no-brainer talents and worthless/gimped situational mechanics that people avoid unless they have no where else to spend points...

If they want meaningful choices then they need to bring the size of the trees back up and fill them with several obvious character power talents but limit the amount you can choose and balance the different talents as closely as possible so that you can actually spec for a certain playstyle within the tree that could be different from someone else... you cannot do that with so few talents to choose from at this point... if they are determined to have only 41 points max then they should increase the tree sizes to 51 points again and make it so you only need to spend 3 points per tier to get to the next tier but basically you are forced to give up many talents along the way for others... of course if they are not balance very closely then everyone just pick the cookie cutter build yet again...

[Dark Side]

i geuss there is less variety, but lets be honest. Who actualy speced improve expose armor?

[Ma_shed]

Cookie cutter specs will exist whether the trees are 100 points deep or 30.

The number crunchers will always find the "optimal" spec that will produce the most for whatever role you're doing. Because of this, people will still be forced into them to get the most out of their character whether it is in a PvE or PvP situation-- simply because in order to stay competitive, you can't gimp yourself.

Do we have variety now? No. I look at other classes in my raid and see the exact same specs, perhaps 1 or 2 points different. Is this variety? 2 points out of 71? Nope. If you think it is, you're just a fool then.

[Izenhart]

I dont really mind the changes and simplifications of the guild xp system, nor the change with arch, but the fact that talent trees now are so shallow, we essensially could have 1 (one) talent point trees is very sad. Choose your specialization, and off you go!

Yeah, because previously, having to fill "Increase your XX damage by 1/2/3/4/5" and "Increase your critical chance by 1/2/3/4/5" were something hard to fill?

Are you fucking serious?

Right now with the Priest talent tree I have 2-3 different talents I'd struggle to take off, while with the previous tree I didn't (and don't) have such problems, even having 30 more talent points.

[Chamass]

...
I dont really mind the changes and simplifications of the guild xp system, nor the change with arch, but the fact that talent trees now are so shallow,
...

What are your first impressions of the trees and the system in genereal?

I strongly dissagree with this
All the usefull talents are still there... but best thing is theres gonna be more then 1 or 2 ways to spec for say fire mage, arcane mage, fury warrior
In live ur spec either is nearly copied or sucks, in beta ur spec can be nearly as good as the min-max spec, and be very different
Its what theyve been trying since WOTLK launch, and they finally had the guts to stop walking on their toes and change it, im happy

[Clusterfuck]

Cookie cutter specs will exist whether the trees are 100 points deep or 30.

The number crunchers will always find the "optimal" spec that will produce the most for whatever role you're doing. Because of this, people will still be forced into them to get the most out of their character whether it is in a PvE or PvP situation-- simply because in order to stay competitive, you can't gimp yourself.

Do we have variety now? No. I look at other classes in my raid and see the exact same specs, perhaps 1 or 2 points different. Is this variety? 2 points out of 71? Nope. If you think it is, you're just a fool then.

While the optimum spec may always be around it is possible to change the talents in such a way that you can play a spec that you find fun without losing out much dps if any to the cookie cutter spec.

[Snes]

I like the new talents. You get more variety because you don't brainlessly copy and paste a cookie cutter build. The old trees have damage-increasing talents all the way to the bottom. No thought process involved whatsoever. But now, just for example, as a fury warrior at some point you can pick between getting full blood craze or pickup up stuff like heroic fury, furious strikes, and piercing howl in order to advance.
But I understand, people are naturally resistant to change. I bet not a single person who's crying over talents trees that have been active for less than 24 hours that could come up with a viable alternative. Keeping the talents as they are would be extremely boring.

[valganon]

If these talents go live, I'm quitting.

I'm not trying to be a big fat troll, or be funny. I'm dead serious. I was looking forward to Cataclysm, but after seeing the Mage talents, I was so disappointed, probably the biggest let-down I've ever seen Blizzard present.

Wow.

Bye bye! seriously this is the 1st pass over the talents and as huth stated half the classes arent even done! So erm you go rage quit before even seeing end product... Ill stick it out and realise that this is after all BETA!!! seriously some people just dont get that do they.

[tsyko]

I dont see the problem...

There is no variety now. U have 3 Trees and for every Tree there is one cookie cutter spec. There arent 3 ways you can spec a MM Hunter. Maybe you have 5-7points you can choose where to spent but i wont call this variety.. There are so much useless talents nobody would ever take. Everything the current Talent Trees do is confuse new players and I dont want to read EJ for an hour just to know whats the best spec when i roll a new class.

I like the idea so far. The trees are not perfect but... ITS BETA !

[Jaroos]

"We are her to talk about the changes: no more boring "5% more dmg dealt"-talents. Let's talk about new talents.."

silence...long silence...very long silence...nothing more than silence...

"Why new talents?"
"Yeah, why new talents?"
"Yeah, that's enough!"
"Yeah, more talents would be too complicated for the mainstream!"
"Right, let's just dropp some talents!Should be enough!"

---------- Post added 2010-07-14 at 08:57 AM ----------

I dont see the problem...

There is no variety now. U have 3 Trees and for every Tree there is one cookie cutter spec. There arent 3 ways you can spec a MM Hunter. Maybe you have 5-7points you can choose where to spent but i wont call this variety.. There are so much useless talents nobody would ever take. Everything the current Talent Trees do is confuse new players and I dont want to read EJ for an hour just to know whats the best spec when i roll a new class.

I like the idea so far. The trees are not perfect but... ITS BETA !

Not everybody is a MM-Hunter! Look at the protwarrior. Beautiful! One build for AOE, one build for aggro, one build for pure def, one build for support. And many glyphs, that can support every build. I love it. And they kick it for grandmas to have no more problems to rock WoW.

1+1=2 is not better than E=MC², even if everybody can understand it.