New fire tree for PVP - snatching defeat from the jaws of mediocrity

[zeli]

So the tree for the alpha build was decent, but it still had some major flaws. I'd call it mediocre.

But now we have the new 31 point specs. And Blizzard has taken us from mediocrity to outright catastrophe. If the fire spec were to go live as it is now, fire pvp would be dead.

Cinderz on the US mage forums summed it up best:

... I am disgusted with some of the flavor removed from fire along with bad choices... I know changes will come before release and they remain unfinished, but if you don't express interest somethings may never change... Here goes:

- No more instant free Flamestrikes (Firestarter could easily be added in imp Flamestrike making worthwhile, emphasis on FREE)

- No more Blastwave CD reduction from dmg(This was an awesome step towards Fire pvp and one boasted a lot previously by blue when previewing Fire)

- No more Fiery Payback (Awesomely fun and very flavorful Fire style)

- Hotstreak takes THREE crits in 6 seconds.... wow way to get hit by the lame bus, unless Pyro hits really really hard compared to fireball and the like at 85, then this is really sad. Not to mention the DoT on it is going to be great now with the focus on Fire doing more DoTs, sad..

- Burning Soul... A talent that should be wrapped in for free with something else now costs 3 points instead of 2

- Ward can no longer Reflect spells!?!?!? wtf.... such a flavorful Fire ability (Glyph not included)

- No more exploding Flame Orb... (read: No BOOM) In fact they just gave frost talents to buff a FIRE ability... dumb, where the Fire talents for it??

- Pyromaniac is still way too situational to be seen as worthwhile, should be 2 targets for 5% haste and some damage, crit, or something fun

So what's the good you ask?

Definite access to a lot of mana saving talents, and that's really all I see. I'd rather be oom than have some of these changes. Let me emphasize, I know this is beta, but let me also emphasize: Fire needs it's flavor talents back.

I'd also add in my personal gripe - Blazing Speed. The same crap we've had since TBC. Fire pvp mages have been lobbying for a short duration immunity to new snares after it procs. It looks like we are being ignored again in cataclysm.

Seriously, if these issues aren't sorted out I'm quitting the game. Enough's enough.

[flame]

Agree with everything. Frost too got some talents removed, some of them were good ones.
Well since im from Europe, i guess there's not much i can do beside waiting for the next build

[DirewolfX]

This sorta echoes my sentiment about the new trees. Blizzard said "hey we're going to make smaller trees to get rid of the filler" but instead it looks like they got rid of the fun and kept the filler. Oooo, 5% more damage on my fire DoTs. Bleh. Just make the DoTs tick for 5% more if you think fire mages need the damage.

[flame]

Indeed DirewolfX, that talent never really got my vote. It turns useless to anything other than fights with 3 or more targets. It is probably a PvP-only buff.

I would prefer to make us imunne to snares for 2 sec after gaining Blazzing speed, but Bleh..

[Sunwrath]

We can only hope that fire pvp talents we lose will be converted in to the glyphs.

[Deleted]

I agree with the OP. Fire is something people have wanted for so long to be (more) viable in PvP, I know it's beta but things aren't looking good at all. :|

[Maku]

Agreed, the alpha/early beta version of fire was much better and I was pretty excited for fire pvp. The current tree looks pretty lame.

Talents I want to return:
The CD reduction of blastwave when hit
Improved cone of cold (with the 4 sec freeze) as a replacement for frostbite
Something to improve flame orb

Really satisfied with improved blink though, gonna have a lot of mobility with that + blazing speed
Burning soul should just be a passive when speccing in any tree.
Very dissapointed with the hot streak change. They should definitely change it back to 2 crits.

According to the beta forum mage armor is now 13%mana/5secs.
I don't know if it's intended but if it is - awesome.

[Goliethlol]

According to the beta forum mage armor is now 13%mana/5secs.
I don't know if it's intended but if it is - awesome.

Yea... currently on the Beta, it's nearly impossible to go oom as a dps casters. I have a feeling it is something that will be tweaked once they get all the talents and such sorted out, and they start fine tuning damage on abilities etc.

[Deleted]

At the end of the day, it's not so much a question of how good is fire pvp (because based on what I've seen, it's not all that bad).

The real question will be: How does Fire compare to Frost and Arcane?

Having decent Fire PvP talent is only half the work. It's all about relative power.

Granted, Fire PvP isn't great currently, but it's ok. The reason why people still choose Frost or Arcane is because those two speccs are just so much better.

[Bloobyz]

I really don't insist why you people want a 3rd viable PvP spec, knowing it could ruin the tree in a PvE perspective.

Mages have given up a tree to be a PvP tree, we sure as hell don't want to be forced into Arcane if they ruin Fire PvE by trying to make it viable for mouth breathers like half the people in here, simply because they fail at Frost or Arcane, and are hoping if Fire is buffed it might become stupidly overpowered, and they might hit 2k.

PLEASE stop pushing for this shit, it's a waste of time, use one of the other 2 PvP viable specs, leave Fire AS IS for PvE, let us have our interesting spec.

[Baabinator]

I really don't insist why you people want a 3rd viable PvP spec, knowing it could ruin the tree in a PvE perspective.

Mages have given up a tree to be a PvP tree, we sure as hell don't want to be forced into Arcane if they ruin Fire PvE by trying to make it viable for mouth breathers like half the people in here, simply because they fail at Frost or Arcane, and are hoping if Fire is buffed it might become stupidly overpowered, and they might hit 2k.

PLEASE stop pushing for this shit, it's a waste of time, use one of the other 2 PvP viable specs, leave Fire AS IS for PvE, let us have our interesting spec.

Fire is crap from PVE as well nowadays, so your argument is invalid.

[flame]

Because its fun?

Besides, Blizzard won't allow Fire to be ruined PvE wise.


Baabinator, crap? Its simply the best PvE mage spec and in the top 2 PvE specs

[Bloobyz]

Sure, Frost won't be ruined either.

[Greenmahn]

sorry OT but Membrane Love your signature :P

[escobar]

Fire is crap from PVE as well nowadays, so your argument is invalid.

as of 3.3 well geared fire mages out dps arcane, so you sir have an invalid argument

[Sunwrath]

I really don't insist why you people want a 3rd viable PvP spec, knowing it could ruin the tree in a PvE perspective.

Mages have given up a tree to be a PvP tree, we sure as hell don't want to be forced into Arcane if they ruin Fire PvE by trying to make it viable for mouth breathers like half the people in here, simply because they fail at Frost or Arcane, and are hoping if Fire is buffed it might become stupidly overpowered, and they might hit 2k.

PLEASE stop pushing for this shit, it's a waste of time, use one of the other 2 PvP viable specs, leave Fire AS IS for PvE, let us have our interesting spec.

I think we can all agree that this is a troll.