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  1. #1

    Resolving timeline inconsistencies

    Many of the players have noted that one of the biggest storyline disasters concerning leveling in the new expansion pack will be having to eventually travel in the past to the static outdated versions of both Outland and Northrend without any clear-cut explanation as to why or how this is happening. The explanation Blizzard seem to be using at the moment (as they did with WoTLK) is that these battles are still raging on, and from the perspective of the new characters' personal storylines characters such as Illidan, The Burning Legion or the Lich King have not been completely thwarted yet in these respective locations.

    I could accept this back in the last expac, however I and many other lorehounds believe now that with Cataclysm, where places such as Eastern Plaguelands and Western Plaguelands are now growing with vegetation (in a level 45 zone!!) from the defeat of the Lich King, that it is a little too hard to swallow. In light of all this, I think there are some very simple ways Blizzard could add authenticity to what is going on without requiring much maintenance on their part. These are my suggestions:

    Outland
    Have it so that the actual Dark Portal is sealed after the Cataclysm. The only way to access the other side of the Portal will be through the Caverns of Time, which is simple and just as effective as going there from Blasted Lands (IMO), as we would be accessing the Outland of the past and it involves the Dragonflights who are the focus of this expansion anyway. You might say to yourself "But hold on, what about Goblins and Worgen? The Old Alliance and Horde would just accept them into the battle effort with open arms?" Well, yes, I frankly don't remember Tauren or Forsaken following Arthas into the Culling of Stratholme either whilst playing Warcraft 3, or why he and the rest of Lordaeron would co-operate with them, but the point is that this is close enough as we can get to maintaining any sort of legitimacy out of the gameworld.

    In all, a very small change.

    DK Starting Zone
    This would only require a very slight modification to two of the final quests in the zone which I don't think would spoil the experience of this chain. Simply put, it would be exactly the same until the cutscene that plays in the Quest "The Light of Dawn!". Instead of your character joining the resistance with Darion and the rest of the Knights of the Ebon Blade, the Lich King will capture your character and strip him/her of their free will. Instead of using the Death Gate spell, your character will vanish alongside the Lich King as the other Death Knights sit there and watch.

    The screen would then fade to black with something along the lines of "A Year Later...", with your (now free) character waking up in the restored Archerus where they would stand before Darion Morgraine. A quest would be toggled above his head similar to "Where the King Walks" or "The Warchief's Blessing" where Darion tells you that they managed to rescue you from the clutches of the Lich King, about the Cataclysm and how the Plaguelands are almost free of the Scourge. He would then direct you to your Alliance/Horde leader just like the other quest.

    This might ruin the whole aspect of "I'm going to get revenge on the Lich King for betraying me" part of the questline, but they're going to have to explain the changes to Eastern Plaguelands anyway once you've phased out of the Battle for Light's Hope and you're meeting with Garrosh Hellscream as your faction leader instead of Thrall for that matter, so this would be a welcome change for me and again a very minor alteration in the long run.

    Northrend
    Now this wouldn't be a change at all, this would just be a lore explanation for what is going on: Simply put, the Cataclysm and the activity of the Black Dragonflight will instead of causing complete havoc (like Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms) have somehow temporarily dislodged Northrend from time. In other words, any ships or zeppelins that head to Northrend will end up in the past along with our player characters. Kind of lame and far fetched, I know, but it's the best i've got besides anticlimatically making it so that we go through ANOTHER PORTAL to access Northrend and ruin for example the scenary of sailing into Howling Fjord. This would also remove the cop-out of the Cataclysm conventiently not effecting Northrend and would require no changes to the terrain or the quests there whatsoever because of it.

    (Yes, the above was partially inspired by Lost. Take it or leave it.)

    I would post these on the Blizzard forums but my account is not currently active (and I'm from Europe anyway, do we ever get heard on those forums?), so if you like these ideas and want Blizzard to hear them feel free to repost them over there with or without credit (I couldn't care less, I just want Blizzard to implement something to fix this mess). This thread can also be used to discuss any alternative ideas you guys might have for sorting out these timeline inconsistencies, perhaps there are some better solutions for this.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    1. They would need to replace the portal to Blasted Lands with one to Tanaris

    2.
    I frankly don't remember Tauren or Forsaken following Arthas into the Culling of Stratholme either whilst playing Warcraft 3
    This is because we are all transformed into humans, if you've ever done CoS or EfD you would know

  3. #3
    A: Place a couple of Bronze Dragons around the Dark portal, and have NPC's say "The Bronze Flight has altered the Dark Portal, it is now a TIMEPORTAL ... TO OUTLAND!"

    B: Place a couple of Bronze Dragons on the ships / zeppelins to Northrend, and have NPC's say "The Bronze Flight has altered our boats, they are now TIMEBOATS... TO NORTHREND!"

    Hur hur. But yeah, it's just one of those problems in MMO's. They can't just wiggle their way out an inconsistency like that, so just... suspend disbeief.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral bajerman's Avatar
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    Portal idea is good for outland, for northrend, just change all the quest text to take away all mention of the Lich King and change it to just scourge,

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalehan View Post
    A: Place a couple of Bronze Dragons around the Dark portal, and have NPC's say "The Bronze Flight has altered the Dark Portal, it is now a TIMEPORTAL ... TO OUTLAND!"

    B: Place a couple of Bronze Dragons on the ships / zeppelins to Northrend, and have NPC's say "The Bronze Flight has altered our boats, they are now TIMEBOATS... TO NORTHREND!"

    Hur hur. But yeah, it's just one of those problems in MMO's. They can't just wiggle their way out an inconsistency like that, so just... suspend disbeief.
    This is actually a good idea. The Bronze flight would tell the players something like "In order to defeat Deathwing you must first become stronger. Enemies like Illidan and the Lich King were once almost as fearsome to our world as the black aspect, but they were defeated by mighty heroes. Travel through time to those days so you can go through the same experience as they did. Become one of the legends of the past and then return to challenge the present!"

    With that there wouldn't be any inconsistencies for goblin and worgen players to adventure in the events they shouldn't have any part in. As for NPC reaction on races that weren't part of their faction at the time, the bronze flight could shape the timeline for the people to ignore that fact or something.

  6. #6
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    Well, before sailing to Northrend. Blizz could add a quest where you talk to Chromie (or a similar Bronze Dragon) and your character faints (just like in a new Cataclysm area, no spoilers from me), then by the time you arrive in Northrend, you are in the past. Voila
    And yes, a portal to the past is great for Outlands, not like it's hard to implement a quest for Blizz, it's a talk to quest, with an animation on top. Easy stuff (the "fall asleep" effect is a mist and the screen turning black). On the other hand, they might explain it as we level.

  7. #7
    IT like iraq. Just casue you killed the dictator (Saddam/LK/Illidan) doesnt mean that the rest of the shit magically dissapears - Its still requires a substantial military presence there, and new, upcoming heros to maintain stability there.

    The reason quest givers keep on sending all your characters to the black temple/icc etc. is to beat back the resurgent forces of the betrayer/ the scourge even though sll this other shit is going down in azeroth. We need to maintain our past deeds whilst going on to deafeat new evils.

    No dodgy time weirdo shit needed, and I can still level my alts in the outlands guilt free.
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  8. #8
    They do not need to do anything.

    Outland and northrend are separate stories, that happened before cataclysm. Your character experiences these stories as they were prior to cataclysm. People still want to experience the lore and adventure of these stories, so they will remain the same.

  9. #9
    I haven't played Cataclysm yet, but I'd imagine the 1-60 quests are post-Cataclysm so there is a continuity issue that bothers people like us to some degree. These transitional quests or phases won't affect the Outland and Northrend story itself.

  10. #10
    easier explanation: the infinite dragonflight's attempted unraveling of the timeline have caused significant lore inconsistencies and paradoxes from continent to continent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  11. #11
    I don't see why Blizzard doesn't use the best excuse video games like this have to offer:

    It's magic. =D

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    This is actually a good idea. The Bronze flight would tell the players something like "In order to defeat Deathwing you must first become stronger. Enemies like Illidan and the Lich King were once almost as fearsome to our world as the black aspect, but they were defeated by mighty heroes. Travel through time to those days so you can go through the same experience as they did. Become one of the legends of the past and then return to challenge the present!"

    With that there wouldn't be any inconsistencies for goblin and worgen players to adventure in the events they shouldn't have any part in. As for NPC reaction on races that weren't part of their faction at the time, the bronze flight could shape the timeline for the people to ignore that fact or something.
    I like that. Maybe they should put some fast cinematic/cutscene that plays backwards the events that happened in Outland/Northrend (for example, starting with the death of Arthas, showing the assault on Icecrown Citadel, our efforts in Ulduar/Storm Peaks etc. and ending with the player aboard the ship/zeppelin).

  13. #13
    The Patient Axlash54's Avatar
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    Suspension of disbelief or "willing suspension of disbelief" is a formula named as such in English by the poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge to justify the use of fantastic or non-realistic elements in literature. Coleridge suggested that if a writer could infuse a "human interest and a semblance of truth" into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgment concerning the implausibility of the narrative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agoonga View Post
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  14. #14
    Honestly, they don't need to do much to retcon Outland to be up to date. Just remove the Mag'har questline and any associated with Garrosh. Also, they need to move Danath to Stromguarde so he can reclaim the Arathi lands for the Alliance (I regress). After that, the Battle for Outland still continues for new players leveling up because nothing has been altered with the timeline. However, there remains an issue with Northrend and Arthas. The cataclysm is supposed to take place while you're still fighting Arthas, yet, all of the new quests and zones indicate that the original leveling areas are taking place after Arthas has been defeated. The only issue blizzard needs to take to solve this issue is to change the new quests to reflect that the battle is still going on in Northrend to defeat Arthas. Their entire thought process has been screwed up with their current questlines and events for this xpac.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrok View Post
    Honestly, they don't need to do much to retcon Outland to be up to date. Just remove the Mag'har questline and any associated with Garrosh. Also, they need to move Danath to Stromguarde so he can reclaim the Arathi lands for the Alliance (I regress). After that, the Battle for Outland still continues for new players leveling up because nothing has been altered with the timeline. However, there remains an issue with Northrend and Arthas. The cataclysm is supposed to take place while you're still fighting Arthas, yet, all of the new quests and zones indicate that the original leveling areas are taking place after Arthas has been defeated. The only issue blizzard needs to take to solve this issue is to change the new quests to reflect that the battle is still going on in Northrend to defeat Arthas. Their entire thought process has been screwed up with their current questlines and events for this xpac.
    The Cataclysm happens AFTER the Lich King is defeated.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jiggler View Post
    The Cataclysm happens AFTER the Lich King is defeated.
    No shit. That's why there is an issue with the timeline. It was originally intended to happen while we were fighting Arthas in the timeline. Now, with their new move, it has disrupted the timeline. Hence, my entire post that you wanted to quote. To change the conflict in the timeline, the quests need to reflect that the battle against the Lich King is still raging. Que the original Cataclysm trailer. Moving on.

  17. #17
    The Patient Vespene's Avatar
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    The explanation for Outland is an excellent proposal, as is the Death Knight one.

    Northrend not so much. I really see no fix for Northrend.
    Sythis - Vicious Cycle

  18. #18
    I'm laughing my ass off thinking of you people staring at your wow screens, telling yourself that your character is traveling through time to go into outlands. remember its just a game... enjoy it

  19. #19
    I never liked solutions which required going into the Caverns of Time. It's a lazy solution and you can't always use time travel for a solution.

  20. #20
    I was thinking about this the other day.

    I understand perfectly well that the timelines are just going to be split, and it's going to be a bit goofy, but everything in Wrath is intended to happen before Cataclysm.

    However, what happens when you complete the Wrath Gate quest, and you have to go to Orgrimmar to see Thrall?
    Is it Old Orgrimmar? Is it Thrall you see, or Garrosh? What happens with that?

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