Perhaps I'm reading skada Absorbs and Healing wrong

[Aevy]

Raid healing, 25 man, bubble spammage = 13-15k HPS (preventing dmg actualy, which is godlike) with 10% overheal max. Everything else is 0.

[nevermore]

Raid healing, 25 man, bubble spammage = 13-15k HPS (preventing dmg actualy, which is godlike) with 10% overheal max. Everything else is 0.

Sigh.

[gaymer77]

He wants to keep 3 healers on these fights because we are pugging our other healers as I'm the only hybrid class player that actually enjoys healing. We have a shaman in the guild that doesn't mind but he's off and on when it comes to showing up. What I'm getting at is we are pugging people we have nothing to go on but their gear (we do a wow-heroes check before the invite. What we're looking for is "what is their spec like? Are they gemmed and enchanted correctly for the role?"

We run 2 healers in the first 4

I still stand firmly behind what I said. You need to bring him here. In addition to this, with the current ICC buff for healing & absorbs there is absolutely no reason at all to have 3 healers for most fights in ICC10 if you have a disc priest. Disc priests doubledip with the ICC buff because absorbs get your increased healing done in addition to the fact that the ICC buff already is making your bubble stronger by itself. As for justifing the fact that you have 3 healers because you have to pug out the others, that's utter bullshit. A healer's job doesn't change from fight to fight nor do they really have to know a boss fight unlike a tank or dps. If their gear is fine and they have at least the first wing achievement of ICC then they are prepared to heal everything else and that gives you absolutely no reason at all to justify 3 healers for 2 healer fights. That's like saying "oh we run 3 tanks for Festergut incase one of the tanks die" for 10 man.

[Honen]

I still stand firmly behind what I said. You need to bring him here. In addition to this, with the current ICC buff for healing & absorbs there is absolutely no reason at all to have 3 healers for most fights in ICC10 if you have a disc priest. Disc priests doubledip with the ICC buff because absorbs get your increased healing done in addition to the fact that the ICC buff already is making your bubble stronger by itself. As for justifing the fact that you have 3 healers because you have to pug out the others, that's utter bullshit. A healer's job doesn't change from fight to fight nor do they really have to know a boss fight unlike a tank or dps. If their gear is fine and they have at least the first wing achievement of ICC then they are prepared to heal everything else and that gives you absolutely no reason at all to justify 3 healers for 2 healer fights. That's like saying "oh we run 3 tanks for Festergut incase one of the tanks die" for 10 man.

You've never ran with bad people? I once had a DK tank that didn't know DKs had a taunt in VoA. The other night while leveling an alt I had a warrior tank that was pulling with a bow and arrow and was attacking with a caster staff. At the same time, 3 weeks ago I ran with another disc priest who the only he did was penance on CD on raid members.... no flashes, no PW:S, no renews... just penance.

We don't know what we have until we're there. But in general, I agree. I want the bosses to die fast so we can progress faster.

[Jellie]

We don't know what we have until we're there. But in general, I agree. I want the bosses to die fast so we can progress faster.

Sounds like you're missing the problem completely. Seems to me you need to recruit some more healers.

But aside from that totally unhelpful comment, I'll say this: Don't use Skada. Pretty much ever. If you absolutely need an in-game Absorbtion meter, get Recount and its absorb addon. But really, the most effective meter is World of Logs. If your computer/connection can handle it, you can actually real-time log with it if that's an incredibly important feature to you, and alt-tab out to check out how effective your other healers are.

Also, you don't happen to have a Druid tank, do you?

[Frmercury]

I once had a DK tank that didn't know DKs had a taunt in VoA. The other night while leveling an alt I had a warrior tank that was pulling with a bow and arrow and was attacking with a caster staff. At the same time, 3 weeks ago I ran with another disc priest who the only he did was penance on CD on raid members.... no flashes, no PW:S, no renews... just penance.

Sounds like the solution would be to PuG better: check all Armories for gear, gemming, spec, glyphs, achievements. It only takes about 30 seconds per person and can save you an hour or more. Worse come worse try organizing a run ahead of time on your realm forums or in Trade / LFG.

[Syya]

Some food for thought

but Discipline has a way to meter-whore and be "effective" whole everyone else fights for scraps to get through.

Pretend that the disc isn't there, and that there's just less damage to heal. If there's not enough incoming damage and you're "fighting for scraps", then take less healers.

Accepting mediocrity seems to plague Discipline much more than any other healer.

I couldn't disagree more. I see it more with holy priests and shaman. I'm sure other people have had more bad experiences with druids or paladins too. To each their own.

If you can't do anything but shield (due to time/output) then stop bringing too many healers. If you think it's "not worth it", ask yourself a couple questions: One, what is the real output of a shield vs Prayer?

When you take overheals into equation, shield > PoH. EHPS of PoH runs more in the neighborhood of 12k (assuming 70% overheals, but mine and our holy priest's are usually 80% or higher), which is less than one shield is worth.

Two: What is the real Health per second I'm capable of in either circumstance?

EHPS, or just HPS? I think everyone will agree that EHPS is a better measure of what a healer is contributing to a raid. If you're talking pure HPS, you can have someone sit there and top meters with 100% overheals, and they did absolutely nothing for the raid.

Three: If I'm mass shielding, doesn't that take more time to cover the same amount of people?

It takes more time to cast five shields, but when you consider what the effective heals will be, shield is better than PoH, because PoH is 70% or higher to overheals. The shield is instant cast. 14k instant cast > 12k 2 sec cast.

And four: what difference do my shields make after they fall off?

None, just like any other heal. After a heal is over, it's over. You have to go back and heal them again if they need more healing.


***********

To the original poster: You're not doing anything wrong. Just take one less healer. That's how disc works though, we'll totally dominate the meters if you're running with too many heals.

[Kelesti]

While I would love to jump on the chance to continue to out-do your logic, the point is this: That thread was closed. If you'd like to continue the debate with Fenix, myself, Lysdexic or Bigslick, please Private Message us. This thread does not need to continue that crap-slinging in the public eye, as it's quite obvious no one's view wil lactually shift in this "debate".

Considering the degradation of responses from that thread, including (especially?) mine, continued banter brought in from "that thread" will result in infractions, because it's just asking for a flame war. I don't care who it is that does it, this ends.

[Kaosadvokit]

If you don't bother casting heal spells because "they do it better/faster" then you have too many healers. Period. With Borrowed Time, a Prayer is 1.7 seconds. That's faster than Holy's, or Chain Heal, for a pretty comparable output.

I dunno what shaman's you run with, but in a raid, with rip-tide proc from t10, my Shaman's Chain heal casts in 1.223 seconds

[Waterwings]

with the icc buff in mind you will allways greatly outheal the other healers on fights where not much dmg is giong arround. (especialy if your shieldin the entire raid) see Lady deathwhisper 10 hc, i can soloheal that as disc, simply cause there is plenty of time to shield the raid, last time i did that fight i had 80% healing and the 2nd healer had like 14%; the rest being done by judgement/leader of the pack..