Demonology base ability idea for Cataclysm

[Orloth]

So, for all that have not been keeping score -

Blues have stated that they don't want the Felguard to be the level 10 Demo ability.

In the current build, it is. It is also the only reasonable ability short of the Demon bolt that we have yet to see.

Blues have also stated that they would like to offer the option to re-skin our demons, and would like to offer a new demon if they can find uses for all the current demons.

So, I have a solution to all this.

At level 10, a demonology warlock gains the ability to "trade in" any demon he knows how to summon for another one that performs the same role. This can be done in any number of ways including a tame mechanic similar to hunters, a drain soul mechanic to gain a "demon shard" that would be used to set the new demon, or little mini quests to capture your demon of choice. The method really doesn't matter all that much.

Demon names would still be random by race and unchangeable, just so that golden cow remains as is.

Trading in your demon would give you a damage boost appropriate to the demonology tree as well as one interchangeable utility ability per skin. For instance

Base - Imp - Firebolt, Burning Ember, Blood Pact, Phase Shift
Upgrade - Eredar - Firebolt, Burning Ember, Blood Pact, Blink (targeted teleport)
Upgrade - Mo'arg - Firebolt, Burning Ember, Blood Pact, Shock Grenade (short stun)

Base - Voidwalker - Torment, Sacrifice, Consume Shadows, Suffering
Upgrade - Felguard - Torment, Charge, Consume Shadows, Suffering
Upgrade - Unbound Voidwalker - Torment, Vortex (a grounding totem like effect), Consume Shadows, Suffering

... keeping in mind that Torment will be dealing damage to multiple targets according to the sneak peeks a few months ago, I figuered it would be a good stand in for cleave. Maybe a medium or minor glyph can be used to add damage in exchange for the extra threat.

This solves the logic problem of getting the felguard before the voidwalker. This way, a new warlock would go catch himself a Felguard after he learns how to summon a tanky demon. It also allows some warlocks to re-skin their demons with a minimum of developer time and energy, as well as providing the demonology tree a bit more flexibility on which demon they use to fit with their "master of demons" niche.

So, this is my grand scheme. Please let me know what you think of it.

P.S. I figured this would be best placed in the warlock forums, as the cataclysm forums don't have class sections.

[Eduardomsc]

I don't like how you chose the Felguard to be an upgrade to the Voidwalker, but besides that, I like the idea.

[Orloth]

The presence of the felguard in the demo tree made the use of the voidwalker and succubus obsolete for the longest time because he tanked better then the void and did more damage then the succubus. So it makes since that he would be an "advanced" demon; he would either replace the void or the succubus. The Felguards's skill set and role is closer to that of the Voidwalker - the tanky type. At least in how it's played in single player. The succubus is more about control. They both deal melee damage (and probably the same amount with Torment dealing damage).

I figured the succubus upgrades would be like the Nathrazim and shivarra models as well as possibly Sacrolash. Those models would make sense having the Whiplash and Seduction abilities, and Lesser Invisibility can be switched out for more apropriate spells.

[ComputerNerd]

The reason he "tanked" better was due to the damage output holding aggro, and it being superior to the taunts offered by the voidwalker.
The felguard should not be a tank in any form, it should be a melee dps, and nothing else.

And can you link to this blue post, I would be very interested in seeing that.

[Orloth]

Which blue post? I mentioned several.

The one concerning prolly not placing the felguard as the Demonology level 10 ability is here.

All my other info comes from the Alpha preview a few months ago and from blue quotes on this page.

And the Felguard is also almost as tough as the Voidwalker and has his own taunt.

The options are - He is a base demon, he is an upgrade to the voidwalker, or he is an upgrade to the succubus. I chose the one I thought fit best.

[ComputerNerd]

It is my understanding that the voidwalker is now learnt at 8, so could be seen as an upgrade instead of a replacement at the same level.
We will have to see what comes.

[FredMaHead]

Hmm yeah, Imp makes Firebolt, what does the Voidwalker do ?

[ComputerNerd]

The voidwalker is meant as a tank, as the changes to the taunting, and the demon soul effect indicate.
I feel it is bad design really that the felguard tanks as well as it does.

[thelorddave]

Copied from my original post in http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-12479-Warlock

This may be wishful thinking, but…

Suggestions for Demonology Tree

First, establish unique bonuses for each demon, suggestions being:
1. Imp = haste bonus
2. Voidwalker = stamina bonus
3. Succubus = spell power bonus
4. Felhunter = intellect bonus
5. Felguard = crit bonus
6. Infernal = crit and stamina bonus
7. Doomguard = haste and intellect bonus
The felguard should become a trainable demon at a level Blizzard deems appropriate (50ish in my opinion).

Remove Metamorphosis from the 31-point talent position and give it to locks choosing demonology as their specialization talent. This would be a huge deal to leveling warlocks as it would become their “oh $#!*” button and the 600% armor bonus would actually be useful for something other than PVP.

Change Demonic Pact; rather than granting the Greater Spellpower effect, it would grant an effect based on the currently summoned demon (see above). This would enhance the raid utility of the warlock.

The Infernal and Doomguard are currently glorified trinkets which are used only for minor advantages in specific PVP and PVE situations.

As the new 31-point demo talent, I would allow Infernals and Doomguards to be permanently retainable once summoned and enslaved (and properly balanced). Both should benefit from demonic empowerment and demonic pact, but should run amok if the controlling warlock is killed.

[ComputerNerd]

The specialistion is meant to be a spec or tree defining ability.
The felguard is there nearly all the time, demon form is not.
Do you see demo locks in pvp using demon form ? I cannot remember the last time I did. Do you see them using Felguards ? Yes.
Demon Form in pve only gets the full benefit if they can stand in the middle and immolation aura. That is something they rarely do.
So to me that does not define demo, nor is it remotely close to being fair or balanced at low levels.
While the felguard is comparable to hunters with pets.

Permanant 2nd pet for demo spec ?
Horribly overpowered surely/

[Orloth]

@ Dave: Metamorphosis is really a "POWER OVERWHELMING" type of ability and is not really appropriate for a level 10. And spastic and unique raid buffs is something that Blizz has been trying to kill for a while now.

I would rather have fewer minions with clearly defined roles for each, then a bunch of demons. Being able to reskin gives the illusion of both, not to mention the coolness factor.

@ComputerNerd: I agree that as things stand now, Felguard is the most logical choice for the spec defining ability of Demonology short of the Demon bolt ability that has yet to show itself (and probably wont at this point). However, the Felguard is not a very unique or interesting minion. It's whole purpose is to be the go to minion for anything a demonologist would want to do. Which is just boring.

Now getting a second demon as a demonologist makes sense, and is not a new idea. I have seen it being suggested since the Wrath trees were announced and probably has been batted around for much longer. It's not horribly overpowered as long as you can't do two Felguards. But, as a spec defining ability? It seems lackluster to me.