Will raid-content be accessible from day 1?

[Deleted]

Here's what normally happens, based on past expansions.

4.0 comes, current content becomes redundant or faceroll. People mess around and basically wait for the Cata release.

Release day - People install the new X-pack, and a minor patch to fix some issues.

People level and consume content very quickly and about 2 weeks after release enough people have reached max level to start raiding.

People begin raiding and, depending on the progress, dungeons become increasingly redundant.

Now this is quite a common pattern, especially for the more "hard-core" players. Now I understand that Cataclysm, more than any other previous X-Pack, will encourage people to reroll a new character.

I think it would be in-line with this philosophy to hold-back all raid-content until roughly 1 months after Cataclysm release date. That way, even very driven players could enjoy the dungeons and heroics and the end-game rep-grinding, without making a lot of this content redundant by early raiding.

If you recall Wrath, people started raiding Naxx within a week after X-Pack release, which was not a good think for the non-raid end-game content.

[Seregon]

Here's what normally happens, based on the last expansion.

Fix'd

TBC wasn't as faceroll when it came to the first batch of dungeons and raids that shipped. Of course the real hardcore guilds didn't spend that much time clearing Karazhan, but Gruul (might've been roosterblocked) and Magtheridon were pretty serious business. I think that's the design philosophy they're going to bring back, so that not all raid content is cleared within 72 hours of release. Hardcore players won't accept sitting around and waiting for the baddies (read: myself) to gear up and get ready for the raids.

[Roknaar]

Fix'd

TBC wasn't as faceroll when it came to the first batch of dungeons and raids that shipped. Of course the real hardcore guilds didn't spend that much time clearing Karazhan, but Gruul (might've been roosterblocked) and Magtheridon were pretty serious business. I think that's the design philosophy they're going to bring back, so that not all raid content is cleared within 72 hours of release. Hardcore players won't accept sitting around and waiting for the baddies (read: myself) to gear up and get ready for the raids.

Took the words right out of my mouth.
At the same time though, as much as they talk about wanting to give everyone a great experience, Blizzard doesn't cater to the hardcores that beat everything in a week. They did this just to do it faster than everyone else. But in the process skipped alot of content that Blizzard worked hard on for over a year to release. Several blues have been quoted to saying that if they get this finished in record time and complain because there is nothing to do, then they should go back and experience all the content they blinked past and enjoy the environments.

[Zurth]

I *hope* there is some kind of world even that unlocks raids after so many weeks. Not so much a AQ style where the whole realm grinds stuf, but more a global even say after 1 month where raids become avalible, thus stopping guilds power grinding and clearing raids in the 1st week.

I also hope they remove realm 1st feats for bother leveling, professions and raids.

[Deleted]

Fix'd

TBC wasn't as faceroll when it came to the first batch of dungeons and raids that shipped. Of course the real hardcore guilds didn't spend that much time clearing Karazhan, but Gruul (might've been roosterblocked) and Magtheridon were pretty serious business. I think that's the design philosophy they're going to bring back, so that not all raid content is cleared within 72 hours of release. Hardcore players won't accept sitting around and waiting for the baddies (read: myself) to gear up and get ready for the raids.

I know that TBC played out a lot different compared to Wrath. But that was also due to the different player mentality back then. Remember, people in early TBC were coming from vanilla WoW. Vanilla was dominated by 40 man raids and most people barely got beyond Molten Core.

I consider myself a semi-hardcore player but back then I waited over a months until I set foot into Karazhan. We were still the first to clear it a few weeks later as well. But that was many years ago and player demands and behavior have changed a lot.

Today it's all about efficiency, instant gratification and lowest possible risk vs. maximum reward. This sounds rather negative but since I myself have followed this suit a little I can't really complain.

What I'm basically asking for is that we have a brief, but enjoyable "no-raid-content" period in early Cataclysm. It would allow new players to level their new characters without "falling behind" and the level 85s could try getting all the heroic-dungeon achievements. A month is all I'm asking before we join the raid-grind cycle again (which I do enjoy). It would also be the perfect time to start the first Cataclysm arena season.

[saberon]

So, you want them to deny content to other people because you think those other people are missing out on other content by experiencing the content they are currently experiencing instead?

Here's a tip: If you want to experience the other content, GO AND EXPERIENCE IT.
Despite what some people seem to believe, you can actually raid... and do dungeons... and do quests... and do pvp... and do whatever else there is to do... AT THE SAME TIME.

People raided Naxx a week in because they WANTED to raid Naxx a week in. They skipped whatever content they skipped because they WANTED to skip that content.

Forcing people to NOT do something they want to do, because YOU don't want it to happen is ridiculously selfish.

[Lucofthewind]

So, you want them to deny content to other people because you think those other people are missing out on other content by experiencing the content they are currently experiencing instead?

Here's a tip: If you want to experience the other content, GO AND EXPERIENCE IT.
Despite what some people seem to believe, you can actually raid... and do dungeons... and do quests... and do pvp... and do whatever else there is to do... AT THE SAME TIME.

People raided Naxx a week in because they WANTED to raid Naxx a week in. They skipped whatever content they skipped because they WANTED to skip that content.

Forcing people to NOT do something they want to do, because YOU don't want it to happen is ridiculously selfish.

I don't think they where expressing a wish to force people not to do things. But more of a "hey guys sit back and enjoy what's out there instead of speeding past everything, then complaining there is no content"

Or at least that's what I think, and believe should be :-/

[schippie]

I almost have the feeling that with +/-6 raids available that when you reach lvl 85(with either a new 10 man guild what i wil be doing)
that wil probably take 2 weaks max. You do heroics 2 weaks or so and then you probably can start raiding slowly. So a normal non hardcore person like me i would probably would take 4 weaks to start raiding.

A hardcore raiding guild 1 -2 weaks lol

[Deleted]

A hardcore raiding guild will simply clear the new dungeons with their 277 item level gear.

[Amazad]

No, just no.

If you keep content unavailable and release it in parts (Like ICC, Sunwell) or release tiers in parts (Ulduar,TOC,ICC ...) the PVE aspect of the game will be even worse than it is right now.

You're wrong btw, this is not how it usually goes down. in TBC it was WAY different with the end-game content and leveling time and blizzard didn't let people get their maximum t5 content on farm to release BT - which is excellent.

And I really hope blizzard will not make the same mistake they made with WOTLK with releasing raid tiers apart from each other (waiting for all the players to get T7 to release ulduar and so on...)

[CptAwesome]

So what you are saying is that it would be fun to farm the heroics we will have to farm for the entire expansion for a month before we can kill anything difficult or entertaining?

Jog on, scrub.

[nalle]

Most of the hardcore players out there that rush the leveling to get to the new raids (me included) usually level several alts through the new stuff or do the loremaster achievements.

Just because you like leveling and that you don't want to rush to see the new raids the hardcore players shouldn't be allowed to do it?

That just sound very VERY selfish dude...

Just because I want to rush leveling to get to the new raids, you shouldn't be allowed to level at all and have to make a premade character that you can only raid the new raids with for the first month, sounds fair?

Give me a break...

[dekcahw]

The only reason I could see locking the first tier for 2 or so weeks would be to even up the chances for a larger group of people to race for kills. The guy who doesnt have a job/school/gf to deal with is going to beat the guy that does regardless of skill level if 50 hours of filler content needs to be finished before the race begins. Take that filler content out and things arent set in stone.

[Deleted]

A hardcore raiding guild will simply clear the new dungeons with their 277 item level gear.

Somebody's been hiding under a rock.

Go look up the quest rewards on WoWhead.

[anaxie]

Unlike Naxx, Sarth3D being the exception. Cataclysm is going to have Hardmode content. aswell as retarded stat inflation. I think T11 Content will last a little longer because of the hardmode portion since itemstate value is making a massive jump. Most people will probably need that extra stam to buffer their new raid aoe situations, and DPS check bosses. Top end weapon value in BC was 606 damage only jumped to around 800ish in wrath {2handers} Cata is a NEAR DOUBLE jump from 1600 on a Legendary to 3000 on a craftable HUNTER ITEMIZED Polearm.

TLDR : Cata is going to deliver on content.

EDIT: If you don't think enhanced stam isn't needed in some situations, my guess is you didn't do Freya+3 when it was current content and not nerfed to hell.