Getting rid of spellpower-plate: A suggestion

[emni]

I think the best solution would be to just remove plate spellpower gear and make holy paladins use mail spellpower gear. Only 2 out of 30 specs use that, and although it doesn't drop a whole lot now, with the removal of plate spellpower gear there should be plenty of room in the loottables.

I love this idea!

Blizzard could add it as one of those specc things you get at lvl 10. "You gain the ability to receive Mastery bonus from mail armor in addition to plate." There, fixed.

[Lyvefire]

Why does it bother everyone so much if only 1/30 spec can use a piece of gear?


If you don't like rng THAT much you're playing the wrong game.
Homogenization is bad, we're already getting it by the truckloads for classes, let's not get the loot tables down to 3 drops every spec can use.

Actually mate I think the game may've just stopped being the right game for you. I personally didn't mind Bc's way of doing it but this way doesn't bother me either. What does bother me is leaving the job unfinished, every single other spec in the game has shared loot so why Holy Pallies shouldn't get an exemption?

The shaman looks to Paladin looks idea again has merit but then Blizzard has to make an exchange for every single item that a holy would want. It gets worse though, I guarantee the moment other people here that holy pallies can change their gear for aesthetic reasons that they'll want a slice of the pie, which again leads to more work.

[Deleted]

You could make it even simpler by giving Paladins an ability to "plateify" their Mail drops. "plateify: Turns any Mail item into a corresponding Plate item".

But actually, I was following the debate here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=5

Someone suggested that it might be easier if one simply allowed Resto-Shamans to wear healing plate. This would be limited to Resto-Shamans only via a Talent, but would result in Shamans wearing both Mail and Plate, Elemental wearing Mail and Paladins keeping their Plate gear.

It would also be simpler for Blizzard as they wouldn't need to go back an revert all the old Plate drops to Mail. Their Tier and PvP Sets would still be Mail ofc, but they'd at least have the option to pick up off-set healing Plate.

Since this would be considered a "buff" to Shamans, instead of a "nerf" to Paladins, there would be a lot less QQ.

[Lyvefire]

Someone suggested that it might be easier if one simply allowed Resto-Shamans to wear healing plate. This would be limited to Resto-Shamans only via a Talent, but would result in Shamans wearing both Mail and Plate, Elemental wearing Mail and Paladins keeping their Plate gear.

It would also be simpler for Blizzard as they wouldn't need to go back an revert all the old Plate drops to Mail.

Since this would be considered a "buff" to Shamans, instead of a "nerf" to Paladins, there would be a lot less QQ.

Logically the solutions keep getting better and better, art wise we still have the complainers, in this case resto shamsn who don't want to look like a Paladin. : /

[Thetruth1400]

You can't really blame it on the RNG. The chance for tanks and holypalas getting there gear is MUCH better because of fewer competition.

Yes, they have a better chance of getting it as there isn't as much competition, but it's the same chance it will drop as anything else. You can go weeks to months without seeing gear drop for a specific spec. Just because your group happens to see Tanking and Holy Pally gear doesn't mean every group out there feels the same way you do.

Best fix, create another class that needs SP Plate. For the next expansion, they should make a hero class that runs solely off of SP Plate for all three specs, that way instead of just one spec needing it, there will be 4 which makes it much more desirable.

Good fix, Make Holy Paladins run off of some other gear. Having them downgrade to mail is odd, but it might be better for gear creation as 3 specs would then want that and SP plate would be gone. Having them run off Ret or Prot gear just makes them too strong, that's why they haven't done that yet.

Crazy fix, Leave it how it is and make there be a gear trade vendor for Holy Paladins. If they win a plate item, they can trade it in for a piece of SP Plate at a random vendor in the new neutral city. Once they do that though, it isn't convertible back.

Poor fix, Have them run off Ret or Prot gear. They become too strong and that leads to a whole mess of balance issues. Basically everything has to be balanced around one spec of one class, and that's asking a lot.

[Agroculture]

If tanks have to start sharing their gear then they'll start gearing up slower, which means slower progression.

Tanks have it easy for gear for a reason; their role is the most gear dependent in the game. Shitty DPS and healers are carried in nearly every raid in some form. Try carrying a tank who gets killed before the healers can heal him.

Without carrying an extra tank who's entire job is to do nothing unless a tank dies(which is dumb), there's really nothing to fall back on. If the tank dies and the off tank picks it up, you're screwed when the adds come out or a tank swap is required. Tanks need the gear to survive more than either of the two other roles. If that healer is falling behind, there's always four or five more to pick up the slack. If that DPS is only doing 8K on HM Lich King, there's 15 more doing 14K to pick up the slack. If the tank dies, you're fucked.

Ridiculous argument.Gearing the tank first is common sense in all progression guilds and this change wouldn't affect that.Because,you know,real guilds assign loot according to the overall benefit of the raid,not DKP.

This could work easily by making one of the Holy passive benefits (the ones you get by choosing the tree) convert all tank stats to relevant healing stats.Won't happen however.

[Gordoo]

The best solution: No more plate classes.

Fixed, don't thank me.

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

I don't like it.

[Deleted]

Logically the solutions keep getting better and better, art wise we still have the complainers, in this case resto shamsn who don't want to look like a Paladin. : /

I'd argue they wouldn't have to since it's a matter of choice. Their PvE and PvP sets would still be Mail and their Mastery Bonus would be apllied, regardless of Plate or Mail.

What we're talking about here is essentially non-Tier slots, like Wrist, Belt, Shoes etc. In practice, the others slots are covered by Tier sets of some kind.

The only issue with my suggestion is that having 2 speccs sharing 2 types of gear (Ele/Resto and Resto/Holy) isn't quite as elegant as having 3 speccs share 1 type of gear (Ele/Resto/Holy - Healing Mail).

[4KhazModan]

By your logic why not get rid of SP mail. There is only 1 class that uses it. I'm tired of SP mail dropping at saying "oh no, no one needs it. Waste of a drop." There is as much compettition for tank plate as there is for mail/cloth/leather dps gear. Lets break it down:
Classes for
tank plate = 3
dps plate = 3
SP plate = 1
SP mail = 1(but 2 specs)
AP mail = 2
SP leather = 1(2 specs)
AP leather = 2
Cloth = 4

So tanks have the 2nd most competition for gear. So don't say they have the least.

[Nidhöggr]

So tanks have the 2nd most competition for gear. So don't say they have the least.

But assuming you have 3 Tanks in every 25 man raid, there a at max 3 players that need the dropps. Most raiding guilds will have a feral in their raid, so this goes down to only 2 players wanting all the tank-plate.

Just because your group happens to see Tanking and Holy Pally gear doesn't mean every group out there feels the same way you do.

Saying we have bad/good RNG with Tank/Holygear the last four years is bullshit.

[Augrelle]

By your logic why not get rid of SP mail. There is only 1 class that uses it. I'm tired of SP mail dropping at saying "oh no, no one needs it. Waste of a drop." There is as much compettition for tank plate as there is for mail/cloth/leather dps gear. Lets break it down:
Classes for
tank plate = 3
dps plate = 3
SP plate = 1
SP mail = 1(but 2 specs)
AP mail = 2
SP leather = 1(2 specs)
AP leather = 2
Cloth = 4

So tanks have the 2nd most competition for gear. So don't say they have the least.

They do have the least competition. You only have 3 tanks at most compared to 4-5 DPS that could share the same loot. On top of that, any item that has both tank or DPS can use, Tank gets it first. You could have an item that 8 people could want but if it is a great upgrade for a tank and there is only 1 tank who need it out of that 8, they get it.


On top of that, the conversation was talking about Specs, not classes. Having 2 specs tailor made for gear is a lot better then having to tailor make 1 piece of gear for one spec. The only armor that doesn't get shareded that often is Cloth. Thought from my experince it is Tank > SP plate > SP mail/SP lether > DPS plate/Mail/Lether > Cloth in the order of Most sharded to least sharded.

Wouldn't it just be better to do away with SP plate and make them wear SP mail or DPS/Tank plate.

[Krekko]

I got a better idea, lets have healers using tank gear, tanks using dps gear, and dps using healing gears. That way it's confusing as sh*t for everyone and no one knows what to do with themselves!

IMHO the easiest solution to the problem is allow for an auto-conversion of Spell Power mail to a "reinforced" version, which uses a sunwell like mote system in order to change it accordingly bumping it up to plate. Unique plate graphics and all. It helps with loot consolidation without screwing up conversions (because then how do you handle tiers if they itemize off tank gear).

[Lyvefire]

I got a better idea, lets have healers using tank gear, tanks using dps gear, and dps using healing gears. That way it's confusing as sh*t for everyone and no one knows what to do with themselves!

IMHO the easiest solution to the problem is allow for an auto-conversion of Spell Power mail to a "reinforced" version, which uses a sunwell like mote system in order to change it accordingly bumping it up to plate. Unique plate graphics and all. It helps with loot consolidation without screwing up conversions (because then how do you handle tiers if they itemize off tank gear).

Undoubtedly this is the best solution, I.e. what we discussed earlier but automated, but from a technically standpoint this would be quite challenging to code.

[anaxie]

Ridiculous argument.Gearing the tank first is common sense in all progression guilds and this change wouldn't affect that.Because,you know,real guilds assign loot according to the overall benefit of the raid,not DKP.

This could work easily by making one of the Holy passive benefits (the ones you get by choosing the tree) convert all tank stats to relevant healing stats.Won't happen however.

Sure bro, actually real guilds assign loot through dkp because they would rather get bosses down rather then worry 10 minutes between bosses who gets what. Nice random assumption though. /Golfclap

[Krekko]

Undoubtedly this is the best solution, I.e. what we discussed earlier but automated, but from a technically standpoint this would be quite challenging to code.

Well an automated system might be harder to code, but if you were to go to a Plate/Paladin gear vendor it would as easy as a simple substitute saying XYZ Piece when Converted, Traded, Reinforced = ABC Piece. I'd assume. Regardless a helluva lot easier then changing and scaling stats off tank stats for sure! =P

[Agroculture]

Sure bro, actually real guilds assign loot through dkp because they would rather get bosses down rather then worry 10 minutes between bosses who gets what. Nice random assumption though. /Golfclap

Are you just plain daft?Do you realize that when it comes to progress runs (=/=farm runs),guilds that matter (=/= your guild or you would actually know this) gear their main tanks first no matter what?Doesn't matter how many drops they get ,if its an upgrade for the main tank,it goes to the main tank.

[Deleted]

Are you just plain daft?Do you realize that when it comes to progress runs (=/=farm runs),guilds that matter (=/= your guild or you would actually know this) gear their main tanks first no matter what?Doesn't matter how many drops they get ,if its an upgrade for the main tank,it goes to the main tank.

I'm sorry but this is simply not true. Even in guilds that raided 7 days a week, tanks would follow DKP, just like everyone else. There were a few exceptions I admit, especially when it came to completing set-bonuses for Tier sets, but overall they shared the system. Now when restrict yourself to guilds in the top 10, then I'm sure you're right. But according to Blizz, those aren't the guilds that matter.

As for the actual topic, I really hope Blizzard eventually decides to go with one of these suggestions. It would really be fairly easy to implement Krekkos solution or anything along those lines. It would hardly be more cumbersome than continue having healing-plate drops.

[underdogba]

This is somewhat far fetched, but possibly the best solution would be to make Priests more like the Dungeons and Dragons Cleric, which would produce two healing classes that can use plate.

[Larivas]

The reason why I choose tanking gear is because there are currently more people that want melee-plate than people that want tank-plate. The intention was to get rid of spellplate and melt together and establish a little more competition for the 4 speccs who currently have the least competition.

There are 3 specs that want tank plate, only 2 who want sp mail. If you wanted the specs with the least amount of competition to "melt together" it should be caster shaman and holy pallies.