Reasons why your class is harder than it seems

[Ryquis]

run into a situation where barring good luck ... there's no luck involved in it, it's observation, and it's not wholly predictable, which is why 100% performance is not actually possible.

Game. Set. Match. I was talking about 100% consistant performance, and the same way you take out HfB to call mut 2 button, i take out SnD and call 2 button, just as I also assumed that we were taking out of the equation things universal to the rogue class in terms of good spec choice ala ruthlessness and set bonuses (maybe not 4piece for mut depending on other gear choice, but not completely impotent). I find it equally ironic that someone who corrects what they deem a subjective oppinion to validate their own abilities by their "slipperiness". This is not a thread to flaunt why your rotation makes you better than other people, and by most standards, the combat spec has no bad rep in the WoW community. I am merely trying to see what the line it that distinguishes average and phenomenal dps within a spec that is deemed easy, arguably ret, fury war, arcane mage, mut rogue, and frost mage if it was viable to raid with. Of course I'm aware of adr rush, blade flurry, and lawling spree, and the effectiveness of the understatement escaped you in that it is not difficult to manage long time cooldowns, it follows the same lines as having a priority list with retadins, where you see it up, you hit it 99% of the time. Please reroll mage hunter or paladin, and kindly inform me of a class and spec I haven't been playing for 4 years, and I will both appreciate and respect your oppinions.
I never understood what the internets fascination was with completely ruling out oppinions and speculation from the permissible discussion topics, this thread was intended as no more than a social function and a potential learning experience.

And thank you everyone for posting about your specs, tbh, I was debating hunter mage for a new alt, so there may have been an alterior motive
I would like a challenge, but not one where I'm so in depth as to need to be 100% knowledgable in theorycraft, it is, after all, an alt.

[akteliae]

Game. Set. Match. I was talking about 100% consistant performance, and the same way you take out HfB to call mut 2 button, i take out SnD and call 2 button, just as I also assumed that we were taking out of the equation things universal to the rogue class in terms of good spec choice ala ruthlessness and set bonuses (maybe not 4piece for mut depending on other gear choice, but not completely impotent).

Pressing a button once a minute is not nearly the same as a finisher that is used cyclically. Of cours Ruthlessness procs are shared between specs, what you fail to understand is that the single finisher rotation of Mutilate versus the 2-3 finisher rotation of Combat makes it require slightly more planning and forethought to properly allocate those combo points.

I find it equally ironic that someone who corrects what they deem a subjective oppinion to validate their own abilities by their "slipperiness". This is not a thread to flaunt why your rotation makes you better than other people, and by most standards, the combat spec has no bad rep in the WoW community.

Excuse me? Correcting your statements is "flaunting?"
You made a thread about specs that other people make generalizations about. Someone (not me, if you care to go back a page and read) talked down to your spec, so you turned it around and made a comment about another spec that was as ill-informed as the information you wanted your thread to correct. I corrected you on this misinformation and mentioned that whether someone can do their rotation or not is far from the most important thing to look for in a raider.
The "slipperiness" I'm referring to has nothing to do with rotation, it has to do with understanding class mechanics and ways you can use non-dps increasing abilities to negate boss mechanics, i.e. vanish immunity and understanding what can and cannot be cloaked. It's easy, but I would say there are far more rogues out there that do not grasp these mechanics than there are that do not grasp (at least, on a functional level) their rotation.

I am merely trying to see what the line it that distinguishes average and phenomenal dps within a spec that is deemed easy, arguably ret, fury war, arcane mage, mut rogue, and frost mage if it was viable to raid with.

And the information I presented is a very good example of what seperates a good combat rotation from a mediocre one. Yes, the one you seemed to suggest is in fact mediocre.

Of course I'm aware of adr rush, blade flurry, and lawling spree, and the effectiveness of the understatement escaped you in that it is not difficult to manage long time cooldowns, it follows the same lines as having a priority list with retadins, where you see it up, you hit it 99% of the time. Please reroll mage hunter or paladin, and kindly inform me of a class and spec I haven't been playing for 4 years, and I will both appreciate and respect your oppinions.

Using cooldowns as they come up is not always proper, it depends on the content you are working on. On Heroic LK 25, I tend to save my cooldowns for valk phases during p2, particularly if we're down players. The fact is, you made a thread about peoples misconceptions about certain specs, then you weighted down the discussion with your own misconceptions of one of your classes specs.
As for rerolling, no thank you. I'm quite certain my reputation precedes me among the rogue community, I'm not entirely sure that's the case for you. Playing for a year or 4 years, misconceptions are still misconceptions.
And for what it's worth, assuming you're from Kargath, you already have Heroic Soulthief's Braided Belt and yet you're wearing Vengeful Noose, despite having so much hit already, you would still be better off with Soulthief's, considering your EPs. (additional AP on the 10H belt + hit remaining a decent stat for you + crit being an altogether FAR better stat for you than armor pen given how high your crit cap currently is totally outweighs the haste of the badge belt)

I never understood what the internets fascination was with completely ruling out oppinions and speculation from the permissible discussion topics, this thread was intended as no more than a social function and a potential learning experience.

Rotations and accurate statements are not opinion, thanks.

And thank you everyone for posting about your specs, tbh, I was debating hunter mage for a new alt, so there may have been an alterior motive

Ironically, my postings were about my spec, a spec you seem to think you understand but judging from your comments, you do not completely understand it. I find this very relevant to the topic.

I would like a challenge, but not one where I'm so in depth as to need to be 100% knowledgable in theorycraft, it is, after all, an alt.

If only there was a website that basically told you everything there is to know about the theory without requiring you to put the mathematical legwork in. Oh if only.

[kittyrawr]

I Play a feral cat druid... Do I really need to explain any further?

So do I, and I feel it's the easiest class to play.

Subjective question is subjective.

[Antuzin]

I play a Boomkin, looks simple, and it really is, but 90% of people can't get it down, kind of funny.

If you put your dots/starfall up before you cast a wrath, you're bad.

[Thereign]

Marks Hunters-
Bashed for one button spam from BC.

To DPS competitively as a marks hunter, I press the button, and if I notice my dps dropping, I press the button harder.

OT- have a priority system that we have to keep in mind, while mashing buttons/timing when to use Viper (up phase on sindy, etc), stacking CDs, limiting movement so that all autoshots go out, by means of stutter-stepping.
Rapid Fire>Kill Command>Silencing shot>Serpent Sting>Chimera>Aimed>Readiness>Steady Shot

Edit- Also needing a ret in the raid if I don't want to go OOM.

[Daez]

bear druid, all i do is mash 2 buttons on trash and 3 on bosses. but what you don't know is that after 2 mins of mashing my fingers hurt :/

Or, after spamming swipe for long enough you just don't want to spam it anymore and reach a period of forcing yourself to spam it.

---------- Post added 2010-07-20 at 06:27 PM ----------

Until everyone has mastered everything about their class *other* than the sheer dps aspect of it, they're in no position to talk about subjective difficulty.

I would have to say I've mastered restoration and bear for my druid. In fairness, I still can't stand playing cat or boomkin, so do I get half a position? :P

---------- Post added 2010-07-20 at 06:32 PM ----------

matching my slipperiness with fight mechanics is another.

Fight mechanics are hard, mkay! So incredibly hard that I've never bothered to read a strategy or watch a video in WotLK, and I still have it mastered by the second attempt.

[Greenmahn]

Yeah but your class isn't harder than it seems. It appears complicated, and it is.

Thank God someone that understands :}

I also agree with the OP that most bashing of other classes is done by people that usualy just got owned by that class or have never played that class

[jonfauscett]

Fury Warrior, and it's not that hard, but it still seems like everyone screws it up and never uses their CDs...

[Greenmahn]

So do I, and I feel it's the easiest class to play.

Subjective question is subjective.

Sure playing a cat is easy to play playing a cat well is difficult one missed ability and your dps drops big time clipping your rake and you lose dps

[korvmoj]

Hi, I play as enhancement shaman. You can't do that with one hand.

[pomop]

Shaman. Our "as seen" rotation is like 3 buttons, but really we have around 17 things on our priority list. GG

[sunsmoon]

Oh and if you are not in a stable raid group. Having to constantly ask other hunters if they have the glyph of hunters mark, or are speced into imp hunters mark. Then if they forget to put it up...etc.

Only worthwhile if you have 3+ hunters in your group.

MM Hunter:

While the rotation involves a lot of Steady Shot spam, the complexity you lack by having fewer buttons to press or debuffs to maintain you gain by needing to minimize movement and clipping of your autos when you move. Properly stacking cooldowns and procs affects MMs potential max dps more than other hunter specs due to the scaling nature of the spec. Add in the huge mana drain the rotation is without proper buffs or with target switching and its very easy to fail at the spec.

Pet management is more important than SV, but is naturally less important than BM. Disregarding Furious Howl, Culling the Herd, and Call of the Wild, your pets damage is often 12-15% of your total damage as a marksmanship hunter -- potentially more if there are times when you cannot attack but it is safe/possible for your pet to do so (for example, Sindragosa).

[akteliae]

Fight mechanics are hard, mkay! So incredibly hard that I've never bothered to read a strategy or watch a video in WotLK, and I still have it mastered by the second attempt.

I'm referring mostly to hard content, i.e. ICC heroics a few months ago, and stuff like heroic LK25. The slipperiness I'm referring to is knowing when you have an ability that you can exploit your way through a certain mechanic with to aid in your own or the raids survivability. I'm talking about rogues vanish-immuning Pungent Blight or Blistering Cold, warlocks positioning themselves so that they can use Demonic Circle to allow the raid to completely ignore a Valk on LK25 and LK25H and things of that nature.

[Daez]

disc priest PvE:
prayer of mending, power word: shield.

If this is all you ever do along with casting the occasional penance then you simply fail at the spec. Good discipline healers are constantly casting flash heal to go along with their shields. In an era when mana management is a joke there is absolutely no reason to not put out the most hps possible.

[Deleted]

Boomkin Time!

Bashed for - Spam wrath Spam starfall
Reality -

PVE: To get max DPS you have to have great knowledge of the fights, add spawn timers and such. Using starfall at pivotal moments while also timing your trinket procs to line up takes a lot of practise and focus to get perfect. Also have to be careful with starfall not to pull mobs onto yourself. Knowing when to use knockbacks, how to minimise movement etc all lead to greater raid success and higher numbers for yourself.

As for PVP: Sure starfall is painful, and boomkins can burst quite well at times. The downside of course is how fast we get blown up.

[tekoix]

PvE wise, I 'm pretty sure I have played every class at 80 and in raids. None are challenging. This goes for all their specs whether it's dps, tank or heals. Am I the best? No. Am I good enough? Yes. I could never say a class is hard, or agree with it because well let's face it the game is easy.

Now if we go into PvP, I can agree there some classes are very hard to master in all the different situations and comps you can come across.

[Daez]

If you put your dots/starfall up before you cast a wrath, you're bad.

Starfall should always be on cool down. Insect Swarm should always be up while casting wrath. So, who is bad, eh?

[Perdition]

Meh, no rotations are "hard" just some you have to pay more attention to then others.

[Soisoisoi]

Hi, I play as enhancement shaman. You can't do that with one hand.

You either have a really small hand, or a really big keyboard, any class can be played with one hand*, although I agree enh has a pretty 'long' priority list, it isn't that hard..

*especially if you have a mouse with alot of buttons on :3


I play a Resto/Balance druid and neither are 'hard' but healing is alot different to dps anyway.. I find Balance more RNG than hard - I can get back-to-back Eclipse or go without for ages - thank god for cata changes ! <3 <3

[korvmoj]

You either have a really small hand, or a really big keyboard, any class can be played with one hand*, although I agree enh has a pretty 'long' priority list, it isn't that hard..

*especially if you have a mouse with alot of buttons on :3

Hm, I do have pretty large hands but my definition of "play with one hand" is like "Play with one hand on the mouse, stoned, one hand in the popcorn bowl, feet on the table, drooling into your beercan/bacon". But sure, if you are very quick and nimble, or have a mouse with 50 keys on it, you could play enhancement with great success.