Seals/Blessings

[Gak32]

Was sitting here reading through the new Cataclysm info, seeing all the changes, and I got curious if anyone else feels the same way I do regarding these spells. Personally, I really don't like what they've been doing with our buff spells at all. Seals and Blessings are some of the things that differentiate the Paladin class from other classes, and they're being diminished more and more.

I understand why they changed some of the Blessings to "Hands", to prevent them from canceling each other out, but these other changes I don't agree with. One thing I always liked about my Paladin was having different tools for different situations and knowing how best to use them, and I feel that is being taken away. We lost BoLight, now we're losing BoWisdom (folded into Might, unless this has been changed, correct me if I'm wrong) and BoSanctuary (passive). We lost SoFury (actually, that one was pretty bad) and SotCrusader, now we're losing SoWisdom and SoCommand.

I know they're trying to get rid of 'mandatory buffs that only one class/spec can bring', but I wish they could find a way to still keep the flavor that Paladins have, that is their wide array of buffs

[Deleted]

I thought we were losing Judgement of Wisdom not Seal of Wisdom.
Anyway, things should get more simple, and dont forget we get many new more skills and talents in cataclysm.
The "flavor" that paladins have, isn't having useless abilities in the skill book.

We lost nothing of actual value, and trust me about JoW, they're going to make people get mana from other things (40% Judgements of the Wise- shamans get something like their auto attacks regen mana) so it aint gonna be missed.

About Command, it's not lost, it's merged with SoRighteousness.
And the rest of the skills are pretty long gone.

[Deleted]

I thought we were losing Judgement of Wisdom not Seal of Wisdom.
Anyway, things should get more simple, and dont forget we get many new more skills and talents in cataclysm.
The "flavor" that paladins have, isn't having useless abilities in the skill book.

We lost nothing of actual value, and trust me about JoW, they're going to make people get mana from other things (40% Judgements of the Wise- shamans get something like their auto attacks regen mana) so it aint gonna be missed.

About Command, it's not lost, it's merged with SoRighteousness.
And the rest of the skills are pretty long gone.

Im all for making this game simple, finally i will have time to watch all my blackadder and red-dwarf re-runs whilst doing raids with one hand. Thank you blizzard. God bless!

[Ronark]

Cata Seals:
Seal of Righteousness
Seal of Vengeance
Seal of the Pure (Light + Wisdom)
Seal of Justice

Removed: Seal of Wisdom, Command


Blessings:
Blessing of Kings (does not stack with MotW)
Blessing of Might (Might + Wisdom)

Removed: Blessing of Wisdom, Sanctuary


Auras:
Devotion Aura
Retribution Aura
Concentration Aura
Resistance Aura (Fire + Frost + Shadow)
Crusader Aura

Removed: Frost, Shadow Aura


Judgements:
Judgement (Light + Justice)

Removed:
Judgement of Wisdom, Justice

[Cyclone Duke]

Cata Seals:
Concentration Aura
Resistance Aura(Fire + Frost + Shadow)

Think you meant this?

[Requital]

Ya they really need ot get off their lazy ass and make a Ret DPS Seal we shouldn't be forced to share with Tanks shit is beyond stupid.

[Ronark]

Think you meant this?

You saw NOTHING!

[Feythir]

Ya they really need ot get off their lazy ass and make a Ret DPS Seal we shouldn't be forced to share with Tanks shit is beyond stupid.

Return of Seal of the Martyr/of Blood?

[Ronark]

Return of Seal of the Martyr/of Blood?

Seals of the Poorly, Non-Creativly named Talent in the Ret tree.

[Eurytos]

Ya they really need ot get off their lazy ass and make a Ret DPS Seal we shouldn't be forced to share with Tanks shit is beyond stupid.

Who says we are sharing with prot? Maybe prot is sharing with us.

I actually do believe this, though. I'm not sure how they can make a seal for ret that prot wouldn't also want to use. Any seal that is going to do more dmg is the seal that prot is going to want to use. They could put a special seal deep in the ret tree, but as far as I'm concerned, I dont want to have to spend talent points on a seal just so I can be a little different from a prot paladin.

[Dehuman]

Cata Seals:
Seal of Righteousness
Seal of Vengeance
Seal of the Pure (Light + Wisdom)
Seal of Justice

Removed: Seal of Wisdom, Command

You did not lose Seal of Wisdom, just don't have to decide between light and wisdom, didn't really lose Command either it's effect is in the talent tree but now it uses a dot and most good ret would seal swap between Vengeance and Command anyway, more simpler now huh

Blessings:
Blessing of Kings (does not stack with MotW)
Blessing of Might (Might + Wisdom)

Removed: Blessing of Wisdom, Sanctuary

Again Wisdom was not removed it is now combined so Druids/Pally's/Shamans don't whine about what blessing they get, didn't lose Sanc either it's for the tanks and is in the tank tree
How many times has a cat whined about getting Wisdom because there is a tree in the group

Auras:
Devotion Aura
Retribution Aura
Concentration Aura
Resistance Aura (Fire + Frost + Shadow)
Crusader Aura

Removed: Frost, Shadow Aura

Really? Again not removed Combined one aura needed for fights with multiple magic damage, Sounds like a damn nice change

Judgements:
Judgement (Light + Justice)

Removed:
Judgement of Wisdom, Justice

Justice wasn't removed again it was combined Wisdom, with the Blessings Combined the Judgement was kinda redundant
Judgement- Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell to judge an enemy for 20 sec, granting attacks made against the judged enemy a chance of healing the attacker for 1% of their maximum health, preventing the enemy from fleeing, and limiting their movement speed.
so it's going to heal me, prevent them from fleeing (low lvl crap) and slow them down (PVP) sounds really good

[Feythir]

Seals of the Poorly, Non-Creativly named Talent in the Ret tree.

Guess that one works. It'd be hard to start explaining what seal I'm using atm though...

The post above is deserving of a facepalm though. No, no. /facedesk. You're aware that Ronark was explaining what had been removed(read: COMBINED)or replaced to the person in question right? RIGHT? Cause you know, trying to look clever and not accomplishing it.

[Ronark]

You did not lose Seal of Wisdom, just don't have to decide between light and wisdom, didn't really lose Command either it's effect is in the talent tree but now it uses a dot and most good ret would seal swap between Vengeance and Command anyway, more simpler now huh



Again Wisdom was not removed it is now combined so Druids/Pally's/Shamans don't whine about what blessing they get, didn't lose Sanc either it's for the tanks and is in the tank tree
How many times has a cat whined about getting Wisdom because there is a tree in the group



Really? Again not removed Combined one aura needed for fights with multiple magic damage, Sounds like a damn nice change



Justice wasn't removed again it was combined Wisdom, with the Blessings Combined the Judgement was kinda redundant
Judgement- Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell to judge an enemy for 20 sec, granting attacks made against the judged enemy a chance of healing the attacker for 1% of their maximum health, preventing the enemy from fleeing, and limiting their movement speed.
so it's going to heal me, prevent them from fleeing (low lvl crap) and slow them down (PVP) sounds really good

Technicalities. Technically, there are no spells named "Seal of Command", "Seal of Wisdom", "Blessing of Wisdom" etc.

[Nillo]

Wall of stupid text

And how did you not understand, that Ronark said exactly the same thing as you did !_!

[Feythir]

And how did you not understand, that Ronark said exactly the same thing as you did !_!

An opportunity to bash a mod? What do you think he did... Lame attempt nonetheless.

[MrKnubbles]

Ronark, why are you so pro?

By the way, does anyone know which icons they are using for all of these combined spells? I'd love to research it right now but I'm on my phone and can't do too much.

[Ronark]

Ronark, why are you so pro?

By the way, does anyone know which icons they are using for all of these combined spells? I'd love to research it right now but I'm on my phone and can't do too much.

In all the above cases, the spell that is listed first is the icon in use.

[MrKnubbles]

In all the above cases, the spell that is listed first is the icon in use.

O that makes me sad. SoW icon > SoL icon.

Anyways, it's about time they merged the resistance auras, that's something I requested a long time ago. Still not much variety when it comes to auras, though. Each spec has their own aura and then one situational aura.
I never cared for Concentration Aura or Aura Mastery but now it's mandatory. -.-

[Talen]

Was sitting here reading through the new Cataclysm info, seeing all the changes, and I got curious if anyone else feels the same way I do regarding these spells. Personally, I really don't like what they've been doing with our buff spells at all. Seals and Blessings are some of the things that differentiate the Paladin class from other classes, and they're being diminished more and more.

And with good reason. Blessings are buffs...but trying to make them unique simply made them a major pain and a chore. If it takes an add-on to keep track of who buffed who with what and when they need to be rebuiffed, then the implmentation doesn't work. As for Seals, though the system has promise and potential,. the truth is that Seals probably shouldn't have a major impact on damage. They are passive and so should be inherently limited.

As it is, Paladins lose SoC this round. Unfortunate, as the current implmemntation gave each Seal (save SoJ) a role. SoW, however, had to go. Well...either that or SoL as combining two spells which aren't used amkes a good deal of sense. Personally, I'd remove SoV and retain SoC, and then transfer the dmage into more active attacks.

EJL

[Gak32]

Got more attention than I thought it would, heh

I think you all make some pretty good points. Maybe I'm just really resistant to change, but being around since release, it's hard to see things go that I've become so accustomed to.

I hadn't really thought about the Auras though, so glad that was brought up. I agree that making the Resistance Auras all one Aura was a very good change. I've also thought that for a very long time. I also think that they should add Arcane resist to that Aura now that it is all one spell. It's my understanding that one reason they never gave us (or anyone really) an Arcane Resistance Aura or like buff is that it was so situational outside of PvP. True, or am I way off base? Now it's all combined I think it would be a good time to add that in.

Side note: anyone remember Sanctity Aura? >.>