Raging Blow!

[Saverem]

My biggest fear is that Warriors will be forced to 'stand in fire' in raids in order to keep their enrage proc'd.

Druids had to do that in TBC and it wasn't fun until it was changed.

---------- Post added 2010-07-21 at 09:14 PM ----------

I completely agree on two things:
- It's a great idea and I'm happy to have something new in the fury rotation.
- I'm worried, as well that, because it's Weapon Dmg based, TG will work so much better for this. I think an AP attack would work better.

Maybe instead of 100% weapon damage from each weapon -- have it be 50% AP damage for each weapon (thus being a 100% AP dmg)?

I don't know. I suppose I'll just wait it out before I overreact and make an informed decision.

I had the same worry until I realized that Single Minded fury will increase that damage by another 20%. It probably still wont hit as hard as TG, but I'm sure they'll make up for it in other areas.

[Moozart]

Im worried that this ability will make TG superior.

I really have my hopes up to making my warrior a main again with SMF.

Seriously at all you people who think this... ITS WHIRLWIND W/o the AOE, why dont you see this? we didnt gain anything, its just the replacment for WW except on a proc.

From what i see so far blizz is doing everything they can to make fury as procy as Arms, why i dont like arms in the first place

[Warrax]

I agree that Enrage will be annoying to sustain, it might as well be like Wrecking Crew.

Seriously at all you people who think this... ITS WHIRLWIND W/o the AOE, why dont you see this? we didnt gain anything, its just the replacment for WW except on a proc.

From what i see so far blizz is doing everything they can to make fury as procy as Arms, why i dont like arms in the first place

RB is not really a proc, it is for the most part controlled and I'm pretty sure we will have an enrage up at least 75% of the time.

[catablitz]

Well, design wise all the weird, inconsistent and illogical things happen to fury spec since the beggining.
Would it be so hard to just make it usable 100% of the time like every normal class/spec?
We lost WW from normal single target cycle and got this skill, fair enough, but why does the concept always has to be complicated when there is no reason.

It is not QQ about complexity but about concept. Keeping uptime of dots is reasonable, duty to keep a self effect up is...I dont know..How is that even alligned with the goal to eliminate tunel vision and give more flexibility with cycle as blues said?

[Shullski]

It's actually really really terrible.

The cooldown is 3 seconds. Do you want to try creating a rotation out of a 4 sec CD and a 3 sec CD? It's humanly impossible, and it leaves NO room for ANYTHING else. Slam cannot be used, utility cannot be used without significant dps loss. Not only that, the enrage requirement means we have to use our situational cooldowns to enable RB instead of using them when we need them. This means that if a boss fears, you either have to take a huge loss of dps and save BR for it, or you use BR to be able to use your main attack and you get feared. If you're short on rage, tough, you've used bloodrage on cooldown to enable you to use your main attack. They cease to be utility cooldowns and become raging blow activation button one and two.

I cannot stress how bad this move is for fury warrior playstyle. I'm playing with it on beta right now and the rotation is clunky, unnatural and just feels awful.

Any chance you can record it and upload it?

[catablitz]

Do you really need a video mate? RB cd is 3 secs, BT cd is 4 secs, HS cd is 3 secs, our GCD id 1.5 secs.

The solution is so simple: give a normal attack usable under normal circumstances like normal people have and give the '10% enrage buff' as passive in wrecking crew style to the fury tree which is the 'angry' tree and the one with improved enrage as mastery and yet the only one to not have such a talent.

[bateman]

Or increase raging blows CD, remove the enrage requirement, then add some other move with a longish CD that is only usable when enraged.
.

[Enders]

Or increase raging blows CD, remove the enrage requirement, then add some other move with a longish CD that is only usable when enraged.
.

This would essentially be the ideal solution.

4.5 sec CD on BT, 9 sec CD on RB with slightly increased damage and remove the enrage dependency (perhaps make it do slightly increased damage while enraged, a la mutilate?), and maybe a 20-30 sec CD ability only usable while enraged to give us another button to play with. The increased cooldowns would alleviate rotation clipping and allow us to use our utility skills and slams, as well as letting us use our enrage cooldowns when they're actually needed.

[FriedRyce]

It is a single target whirlwind which you cannot perform if you are not enraged.

with half the cooldown

[DUNDER]

Well the 20% damage modifier is here to balance against TG so RB will hits 20% harder from SMF + 10% for not having TG (penalty) so RB will hit as hard with 1handers Tho the only issue I see is the difference in attack speed for the dmg calulation, it could make TG better indeed. A quick band aid would be to put the damage multiplier to 3.3 (2h normalization) on Raging Blow and WW even when using 1handers, that would fix the problem.

Abilities based on weapon damage are really an issue for Fury, every Fury abilities should be AP based imo, weapon damage attacks should be limited to Arms.

Well, the weapondamage isnt effected by the -10% / +20% is it? its the damage output. The weapondamage tooltip hasnt change when equiping 2handers so far.
So Im concerned about the same because of this. Mostly since I will go SFM with all my heart!

[Deleted]

The entire ability is absolutely awful in practice. It needs to be scrapped and reworked - the only thing that's right about it is the fact that it's a double weapon attack.

And yes I'm in the beta, I have tried it.

[Breakthoven]

I gotta be honest, the name needs to change, it reminds me of some porno shit. I think it lacks of orignilatiy, its almost the same thing as stormstrike. It's fine but could be better

[agonyzt]

It's actually really really terrible.

I cannot stress how bad this move is for fury warrior playstyle. I'm playing with it on beta right now and the rotation is clunky, unnatural and just feels awful.

At least we are not getting a "Savage Roar" like Ret Paladins (Inquisition). We will be the only melee class who doesn't have ramp up time. Using any cooldown will enable Raging Blow, so we can do our maximum damage right at the start of the fight. Anyway, who talked about rotation? We don't need rotation. Priority system is fine if you ask me. That's the way to separate the bad from the good players.

[Rosham]

Except that it won't, I'm pretty sure that there is a ret add on which has the EJ highest DPS priority system in it and it flashes up which ability to use next based on that already set priority queue so even if some CD's overlap you know what to hit next. I believe it has also been set up for Enh shamans as well - so priority systems only separate the good from the bad for a couple of weeks until people start hearing/reading about an add-on in a similar vain and then its all the same regardless.

[Master Guns]

1: The idea behind the attack is sound, but the mechanics need working on.
2: It really needs to be renamed.
3: Enders is pretty much right when he says the use of the ability is clunky, and doesn't really fit into our rotation quite yet. Needs reworking.

[agonyzt]

So basically you guys want a single target WW with the same CD it was? People were complaining that the fury rotation is too simple and boring... I think this is a nice attempt to make it more interactive.

Maybe it needs some tweaking but the idea is pretty nice... especially if we compare with the other melee classes who absolutely have to build (combo points/holy power) and keep a buff up (Savage Roar, Slice and Dice & Inquisition). We will have a similar mechanic without the ramp. Even DKs have to apply some dots to increase the damage of their strikes. All we have to do is blow a cooldown (and we have plenty) and we are at maximum damage.

I think the cooldown micromanagement is worth it... I love being able to pull my maximum DPS right away. We will be the only class in Cataclysm who can still do it.

[Enders]

At least we are not getting a "Savage Roar" like Ret Paladins (Inquisition). We will be the only melee class who doesn't have ramp up time. Using any cooldown will enable Raging Blow, so we can do our maximum damage right at the start of the fight. Anyway, who talked about rotation? We don't need rotation. Priority system is fine if you ask me. That's the way to separate the bad from the good players.

It's not about rotation vs priority system vs fcfs. It's the fact that, with a 3 sec CD and a 4 sec CD, those are the ONLY abilities you will get a chance to use. It will degrade the warrior playstyle to, basically, button-mashing 1 and 2 while popping an activator every 10 seconds. It's really boring and really frustrating.

[Shelly]

Seriously at all you people who think this... ITS WHIRLWIND W/o the AOE, why http://www.mmo-champion.com/newreply...&p=8407814dont you see this? we didnt gain anything, its just the replacment for WW except on a proc.

From what i see so far blizz is doing everything they can to make fury as procy as Arms, why i dont like arms in the first place

Yes, that's right. It's WW, on a 3s cooldown and only costing 20-rage.

Yup, exactly like whirlwind, thank you oh Moozart for lifting the wool from my eyes!

---------- Post added 2010-07-22 at 08:38 PM ----------

It's not about rotation vs priority system vs fcfs. It's the fact that, with a 3 sec CD and a 4 sec CD, those are the ONLY abilities you will get a chance to use. It will degrade the warrior playstyle to, basically, button-mashing 1 and 2 while popping an activator every 10 seconds. It's really boring and really frustrating.

Not quite, seems during an enrage you'll prioritize raging blow, otherwise you do your BT, HS and Slam rotation.

What it sounds like the system needs for me is for our instant slams to do increased damage when proc'd to make it more attractive. Either way I think folks are right in that Fury warriors are probably going to be getting their own version of Shock & Awe here soon.

[slimj091]

About as much as a single target WW minus 20% from talent and minus Impale.

We're getting new damage modifiers tho like Enrage and Fury in the Blood and there is possibilities that those 2 stacks and there is also Mastery that buffs our enrages so it might do about the same as a single target WW in the end (not now in beta tho because damage is not fully tweaked yet but loss of STR and big loss of ARP are to be considered tho).

It's not really hard to figure what damage it gonna do anyway since it's 100% weapon dmg, it's basicaly a white MH hit + a white OH hit, at the same time, it's basically WW but single target :P

zerkers rage, death wish, and recklessness need to come off of the GCD then if we are supposed to spam whatever ability that enrages us. using even one GCD on something that doesn't directly do damage that second is a big blow to your dps.

[Enders]

Not quite, seems during an enrage you'll prioritize raging blow, otherwise you do your BT, HS and Slam rotation.

What it sounds like the system needs for me is for our instant slams to do increased damage when proc'd to make it more attractive. Either way I think folks are right in that Fury warriors are probably going to be getting their own version of Shock & Awe here soon.

HS isn't part of the rotation as it's off the GCD, you just use it when you have the rage to use it, and you cannot fit a slam into the RB/BT cycle without losing dps, so literally all it is is RB > BT. FCFS is NOT an interesting style of play when there are only 2 buttons. And since enrage uptime is quite high, there will be very little variation, except for two 10sec periods per 2 min cycle where you just sit there waiting for slams to proc since you can't use RB.

Blizz has vehemently expressed that they don't want us (or anyone) to be GCD locked. They want us to be able to use our utility without losing a ton of dps because we sacrifice crucial GCD's. Yet they are effectively GCD locking us. There are better solutions to a boring rotation than GCD locking us (and making the rotation even MORE boring in the process since we're GCD locked by 2 abilities).