Feral Tanking Weapon in ICC10

[Sweaky]

But he is referring to a tanking weapon and not having aggro issues the fact that the Items have more Feral attack power but oh i don't know Lacks the crit. Then the extra ap is wasted because he is missing out on Savage defense procs where a lower item level weapon has crit but is missing 400 Fap the lower ilvl would serve you better as you now have move uptime on savage defense so the lower ilvl would serve the tank better as a mitigation stat(if you don't consider the minor loss in threat that the 400 ap would give).

Or lets say the higher ilvl has more Fap and equal crit but now its missing the expertise and or hit. Your now missing more hits. Now you have to do the complicated math to figure out if the higher ap is equal or greater to the hits you will be missing.(either from a pure miss or a dodge/parry)

SO once again just cause an item has a higher ilvl(which is how gear scores are calculated) Does not mean the item is better for you then the lower ilvl weapon.

That's all i was trying to say in my above post. Sorry if it came off being an attack on anyone I just think that people try to simplify things to much at times and try to complicate things at other times.
Its never a simple thing when considering a weapon choice. However, (IMO) someone that takes a str weapon when they aren't having threat issues over an agilty weapon You know the ones designed for druids. Is Simply Fail.

Yes, what I mean is that weapon lvl should be taken into consideration but higher hp weapon is good. blizzard doesn't provide good weapon for druid tanking in Hicc10/25, so it's hard to make a decision. S8 weapon might be the best for druid. The same thing happened at TOC, as you can see, there was no good weapon for druid to tank, S7 weapon was a good one to. According to most druid tanks in world's first guilds, most of them have to get S8 weapon, other wise, they get bloodfall (heroic). It's quite difficult for a druid to consider which weapon you should take. Once you get this one, another with higer lvl of hp loots.....this always makes me suck..in my bank I have more than 6 weapons from icc10/hicc10/icc25/hicc25....

[Greenmahn]

Sweaky, That's the problem YOU want a super HIGH Stamina Item and Blizzard philosophy is that you shouldn't want one. They aren't itemizing weapons the way you think they should be so you are going for items they are itemizing specifically for warriors, dk's, and paladins. (i.e. the maces).

Blizzard wants you using Agility weapons. They want the dire bear bonus to make up for the extra stam they no longer want a bear to have way more hp then the other tanks they want you picking up the agility weapons, just like they want you picking up DPS leather and no longer have tanking leather. Just like they aren't designing 2 handed Tanking weapons for Death Knights they want Death Knight tanks Rolling on DPS 2 handers.

No i agree some of the stats on the agility weapons aren't OMG just great for a tank but they do help take the current arp(which is going away thank god in cata) IT is one of if not the worst stat a tanking bear could take it does help you with threat but not enough(IMO).

They want you taking the Stave and Polearms for the agility and crit. Because they want you to have savage defense procs more often and the added dodge, armor, and Crit the agility will give you.

And in cataclysm they are even going to be giving you ap to go with thw agility to further discourage you taking the strength items. ITs a design Philosophy that you might not agree with but it is what Blizzard is going for and their is nothing we can do about it really other then going on the Offical forums or these and discussing(not QQ'ING) it. However, we have done this and they stated that's how they see it then they let it die or lock the thread.

So you can go for all stam and honestly be a worse tank for it.

[Sweaky]

It's just like druid tank having been forgotten..... I'm just getting S8 weapon soon, icc loot really disappoint me.
All stam is the point which make druid tank to survive in a extremely challenging circumstances.
Sorry for my poor English...I have to look up dictionary for lots of words. But here is a good place to get vital information for druid ~

[Greenmahn]

Your English is Fine. trust me if i was on (forgive me if i am wrong) a Chinese forum even with a dictionary I would be lost.

But back to the point is Blizzard doesn't want a druid tank to use all stamina anymore that is the OLD way the new way is they want you to have the same stamina as other tanks, and have the agility of a cat druid.

[Sylviane]

The Warmace of Menethil is superior to Oxheart.

The only ICC bosses with any Parry/Haste mechanics are Deathwhisper and Sindragosa, and DW is pretty damn easy. Basically, the additional expertise from Oxheart is almost completely wasted from a survivability standpoint.

In addition, the Warmace has +202 feral attack power, +10 strength, +10 stamina, and +94 armor pen, at the meager cost of 1 critical strike rating. Since all of your damaging abilities scale both with attack power AND armor pen, this is a no-brainer (within the parameters you have set).

I will, however chime in and say that the Tainted Twig of Nordrassil is clearly the best weapon you can get outside of ICC 25. Even with the crazy stamina scaling of bears and 30% ICC buffs.

[scorch109]

If the idea for a bear is the same stam as other tanks then agi over that, then other tanks surpass us in every area, we have less armor, and less avoidance by default then all other tanks. all bears have over other tanks is the helath pool. Also the PVP weapon is by far the best outside icc 25 with the heroic one surpassing heroic bloodfall by a pretty decent margin. And to everyone saying how want agi for a higher uptime of savage defense wouldn't haste be better then crit for that to get your swing timer to where you get 2 hits rather then 1 hit based on having ~50% crit pretty easily as a bear. With the way it works i'd rather the stronger ap for a slightly stronger absorb then upping the crit to 51 so it's still more or less a 50 50 chance. I'll accept dodge and armor as good reasons for agi, but savage defense uptime is kinda :/

[Sunshine]

Yes, you want agi for dodge and armor; the SD uptime is just a bonus (it's really quite high already).

[Beetlejuice]

If the idea for a bear is the same stam as other tanks then agi over that, then other tanks surpass us in every area, we have less armor, and less avoidance by default then all other tanks. all bears have over other tanks is the helath pool.

Less armor then any other tank? what the hell are you smoking? yes we have less avoidance than any other tank but the reason bear tanks work is because we actually have (still) much higher armor (maybe dks caught up now, not sure there but the other two are clearly behind). You can't tank with hp alone (well at least nothing that also does physical dmg), more hp is just a safety buffer, no more no less. That's why it is a stupid idea to sacrifice lots of mitigation or avoidance for small amounts of stamina. You gem stamina because it is so cheap, and in hard mode progression that safety buffer is really nice to have. Not because stam is such an awesome tanking stat.


*edit* Hmm, in case no one has noticed, that one does not belong to this threat. should have gone into another one. Mods feel free to delete.

[axxey]

Comparing strictly these 2 weapons you have to take into account that heroic oxheart is rediculously easy to get, heroic warmace is not.

It then becomes 264 instead of 251iLvl budget compared with 258.