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  1. #1
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    Retribution Discussion - Build 12539+

    This is a new thread for discussion on the new Retribution Paladin Tree we saw implemented in beta build 12539. Please post all comments related to the tree here as the old thread is now merely a reference (although not locked).

    Original Thread - http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ysm-Discussion
    [...]

  2. #2
    As i said on that same thread, i dont like the fact that we have 2 talents dedicated to Exorcism.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathiest's Avatar
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    PVE build http://www.wowtal.com/#k=fpAALK22.9ob.paladin

    Not so sure about Zealotry. Seems really lame and with a 30 min cool down it seems pretty damn useless, but we'll see. If they add a glyph that cuts it's cool down in half then Zealotry might be awesome.
    Last edited by Nathiest; 2010-07-21 at 04:10 PM.
    this is my signature... jealous?

  4. #4
    The new tree is a mess, too bloated and still many talents that are going to be removed or completely redesigned. Most cooldowns are messed up.
    Forcing Retribution to spec into an interrupt is unacceptable.
    I still hate the fact Blizzard is forcing a Savage Roar ability on us, its not a DPS increasing ability, its a ability we have to maintain and micromanage for us to keep up viable damage. I don't know any Druids who like the Savage Roar ability.
    Oh and we still don't have a gap closer.
    Other than those glaring issues, which I'm sure some will be fixed, I am liking the new trees and mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold View Post
    As i said on that same thread, i dont like the fact that we have 2 talents dedicated to Exorcism.
    4 talent points dedicated to Exorcism and only Exorcism is insane, if it stays that way I can forsee most specs skipping those 2 talents, not using Exorcism and still doing more DPS.
    I'm sure these are on the long list of talents to redesign.
    Last edited by Fiddlesnarf; 2010-07-21 at 03:55 PM.

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    Stood in the Fire andy_mitchelluk's Avatar
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    "Divine Storm - An instant weapon attack that causes 20% of weapon damage" 20%?! I hope that's a bloody typo.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathiest View Post
    PVE build http://www.wowtal.com/#k=fpACdp3A.9ob.paladin

    Not so sure about Zealotry. Seems really lame and with a 30 min cool down it seems pretty damn useless, but we'll see. If they add a glyph that cuts it's cool down in half then Zealotry might be awesome.
    As i said, i dont like the exorcism talents. Another thing is, what is the point to Sanctified and Swift Retribution?

    http://www.wowtal.com/#k=7BwkbDfqD.9ob.paladin

    My last 2 points were placed in Rebuke for the sake of having both the stun and the interrupt and on Swift Retribution and thats only because i was unsure where to place that last one.

    Im pretty sure these exorcism talents will be changed on the next build. I think its ridiculous to put a talent to both increase its dmg and reduce the duration by 6 seconds <- Sanctity of Battle just to then open up a talent that reduces the cast time by 100%. Just change it to do all of that on 1 single talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy_mitchelluk View Post
    "Divine Storm - An instant weapon attack that causes 20% of weapon damage" 20%?! I hope that's a bloody typo.
    It's most likely it is. Being it's an AoE attack, it's possible that with many mobs, it's end up dealing 20% to each, but i imagine that it's intended to do the previous amount as normal.

    These talents are fairly complete, but not fully complete. There'll no doubt be some more changes in future, and i reckon they'll be very interesting (although maybe not as much as the latest builds changes).
    [...]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathiest View Post
    PVE build http://www.wowtal.com/#k=fpACdp3A.9ob.paladin

    Not so sure about Zealotry. Seems really lame and with a 30 min cool down it seems pretty damn useless, but we'll see. If they add a glyph that cuts it's cool down in half then Zealotry might be awesome.
    Why take an eye for an eye over judgements of the pure in a PvE build? I would do something more like http://www.wowtal.com/#k=JWBQu8cL.9ob.paladin
    Since I am yet to know how capable Holy Wrath will be versus single target I've opted to leave Wrath of the Lightbringer in favour of judgements of the pure and a point in sanctified light. Also left out utility talents such as Rebuke and pursuit of justice, as there just isn't room in the build for them, and many classes already have an interupt as baseline.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire andy_mitchelluk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    It's most likely it is. Being it's an AoE attack, it's possible that with many mobs, it's end up dealing 20% to each, but i imagine that it's intended to do the previous amount as normal.

    These talents are fairly complete, but not fully complete. There'll no doubt be some more changes in future, and i reckon they'll be very interesting (although maybe not as much as the latest builds changes).
    Looking at it again it may not be. Reasoning for this is:

    -Improved Crusader Strike - Increases the damage of your Crusader Strike by 15/30% and decreases its cooldown by 1.5/3 sec. 1 second CD on CS
    -Crusader Strike now grants a charge of Holy Power.
    -DS (Consumes all applications of Holy Power to increase damage dealt) Multiplier:
    1 Holy Power: 22% Weapon Damage
    2 Holy Power: 50% Weapon Damage
    3 Holy Power: 90% Weapon Damage

    From the looks of that so far, you'll have to hit CS 3 times before a DS to get maximum results.
    I've not managed to get in to the beta today to test any of this out. 1.36gb takes a while on 4mb broadband!

    Can anyone that's managed to log in to the new beta confirm this?

  10. #10
    Divine Storm scales with Holy Power, so 20% weapon damage is most likely its base attack with 0 Holy Power.
    Edit: what the previous poster said ^

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy_mitchelluk View Post
    "Divine Storm - An instant weapon attack that causes 20% of weapon damage" 20%?! I hope that's a bloody typo.
    It's not a typo, it does increased damage based on your Holy Power, 90% or something close to that with 3 Holy Power. I think it's a good change, now that it will hit up to 255 targets, and with it relying on another resource to deal decent damage, it makes AoE feel like something you have to work towards, not just mindlessly push buttons to get big numbers.

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    Bloodsail Admiral Nathiest's Avatar
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    I'm sure there will be enough QQ's to bring back the instant flash of light in Art of War.
    this is my signature... jealous?

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy_mitchelluk View Post
    Looking at it again it may not be. Reasoning for this is:

    -Improved Crusader Strike - Increases the damage of your Crusader Strike by 15/30% and decreases its cooldown by 1.5/3 sec. 1 second CD on CS
    -Crusader Strike now grants a charge of Holy Power.
    -DS (Consumes all applications of Holy Power to increase damage dealt) Multiplier:
    1 Holy Power: 22% Weapon Damage
    2 Holy Power: 50% Weapon Damage
    3 Holy Power: 90% Weapon Damage

    From the looks of that so far, you'll have to hit CS 3 times before a DS to get maximum results.
    I've not managed to get in to the beta today to test any of this out. 1.36gb takes a while on 4mb broadband!

    Can anyone that's managed to log in to the new beta confirm this?
    I seriously doubt CS will remain as a 1 sec talented CD. Base CD will probably be raised to something like 6-8 seconds. Otherwise all you will have to do to achieve insane DPS would be to CSx3, get your savage roar buff up, and alternate between CS and TV for huge damage. Seems pretty brainless.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Prothean View Post
    Why take an eye for an eye over judgements of the pure in a PvE build? I would do something more like http://www.wowtal.com/#k=JWBQu8cL.9ob.paladin
    Since I am yet to know how capable Holy Wrath will be versus single target I've opted to leave Wrath of the Lightbringer in favour of judgements of the pure and a point in sanctified light. Also left out utility talents such as Rebuke and pursuit of justice, as there just isn't room in the build for them, and many classes already have an interupt as baseline.
    Proceed assuming JotW is being changed to a 1-point talent for replenishment, HotC doesn't exist, and that Sanctified Retribution is only one talent. Enjoy.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-21 at 04:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Prothean View Post
    I seriously doubt CS will remain as a 1 sec talented CD. Base CD will probably be raised to something like 6-8 seconds. Otherwise all you will have to do to achieve insane DPS would be to CSx3, get your savage roar buff up, and alternate between CS and TV for huge damage. Seems pretty brainless.
    Do you have any idea how long it would be just to stack 3 HP? The new CS CD isn't unlikely. They're simply testing the possibility this phase, you can't proceed on theory alone. It may or may not be changed, depending on its success.
    Last edited by The Good Captain; 2010-07-21 at 04:22 PM.
    A voice replied...

    "Not by the hair on my Wrynny chin chin."

    And then Varian Chintercepted Garrosh's cast, then sliced the orcs head off. 24 hours later he was found riding Deathwing over Orgrimmar, burning the city to the ground, laughing maniacally.

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    Stood in the Fire andy_mitchelluk's Avatar
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    I think the only problem there is spamming CS like that will burn mana very fast. I know it doesn't cost much but with the change to Judgements of the Wise (not giving mana back instantly) it could very well stay like that.

    It would be interesting to see how that works out with them also trying to fit Holy Wrath in to our rotation. Although Paladins have pretty much always been mindless spamming. It would be nice for that to change.

  16. #16
    ww.wowtal.com/#k=7BwkbDmXW.9ob.paladin
    This would be my ideal pve build

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by andy_mitchelluk View Post
    I think the only problem there is spamming CS like that will burn mana very fast. I know it doesn't cost much but with the change to Judgements of the Wise (not giving mana back instantly) it could very well stay like that.

    It would be interesting to see how that works out with them also trying to fit Holy Wrath in to our rotation. Although Paladins have pretty much always been mindless spamming. It would be nice for that to change.
    Paladins that spam mindlessly are bad, period. FCFS is anything but mindless. JotW will restore 40% base mana over 10 seconds. Add that up with Divine Purpose, and we regenerate a total of 60% every ten seconds. I foresee few clashes, at present.
    Last edited by The Good Captain; 2010-07-21 at 04:32 PM.
    A voice replied...

    "Not by the hair on my Wrynny chin chin."

    And then Varian Chintercepted Garrosh's cast, then sliced the orcs head off. 24 hours later he was found riding Deathwing over Orgrimmar, burning the city to the ground, laughing maniacally.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Elovan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Good Captain View Post
    Proceed assuming JotW is being changed to a 1-point talent for replenishment, HotC doesn't exist, and that Sanctified Retribution is only one talent. Enjoy
    Even after those changes, the ret tree is insanely bloated for pvp. The guide for a specing pvp ret would be "get everything possible in the ret tree, then thow the rest of your talents somewhere."

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Elovan View Post
    Even after those changes, the ret tree is insanely bloated for pvp. The guide for a specing pvp ret would be "get everything possible in the ret tree, then thow the rest of your talents somewhere."
    I'm not even currently investigating a proper PvP spec'. The spec' I proposed is my own ideal PvE spec'. A fully viable Ret' PvP spec' just doesn't quite exist with this phase's talent build. There's almost no point bothering at this time, I suspect they'll be somewhat more accommodating further down the road.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-21 at 04:45 PM ----------

    The change to Divine Storm implies they're already balancing us on-scale around HP. I believe that was intended.
    Last edited by The Good Captain; 2010-07-21 at 04:48 PM.
    A voice replied...

    "Not by the hair on my Wrynny chin chin."

    And then Varian Chintercepted Garrosh's cast, then sliced the orcs head off. 24 hours later he was found riding Deathwing over Orgrimmar, burning the city to the ground, laughing maniacally.

  20. #20
    Divine Storm damage scales up with Holy Power. 20% is when you use it with 0 stacks of Holy Power, or at least I'm pretty sure I've seen it like this somewhere.

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