1. #301
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurytos View Post
    Another question that came to me from Ik's post about SoT(ugh, Vengeance is so much cooler) ticks and Inquisition.

    Do our ticks from SoTruth immediately gain the buff from Inquisition if our 5 stack is already on the boss? Furthermore, would they maintain the buff after Inquisition is used? Similiar to the way rolling crit works for Affliction Locks. I can explain further if this is confusing for any one that would test this, if you are unclear on what I am asking.
    im guessing that you want to know if 5 stacks SoV still is as high tick dmg as when inQ falls off.

  2. #302
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velandia View Post
    Some thoughts after reading through the posts since I left last night. I is in Beta. You can is trust me.

    *Holy Shock is NOT baseline. It is the Holy Specialization ability at level 10. Crusade affects Holy Shock's damage AND healing. It's part of a Ret talent to give Holy Paladins something out of their tree to spec into.

    *Wowhead's talent trees were updated before I went to bed. They are current. And the Specialization Summaries they display are accurate.

    *Word of Glory is not for Holy Paladins. It's for Ret and Prot Paladins. And the talent Acts of Sacrifice is just fine the way it is. It's meant for PvP. It's great for that.

    *Exorcism IS in our rotation. You WILL use it every single time it comes off cooldown.

    *Divine Storm and Consecration do NOT have a cooldown anymore. Of the two, you will most likely never use Divine Storm outside of AoE situations.

    *Holy Wrath and/or Consecration will most likely be a part of the rotation to fill GCD gaps. Single Target? Holy Wrath. More than one target? Consecration.

    Edit:
    *Holy Power doesn't feel like it generates fast enough. Ghostcrawler has already said they're testing Crusader Strike at 3 second cooldown when talented (like it was last build). In my opinion, this would fix the rotation to where we might not have to use Holy Wrath or Consecration as filler...and it would solve the Holy Power generation rate.
    I'm in the beta as well, I WON'T be using Exorcism until it gets some love.
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  3. #303
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    well, testing with InQ will cause trouble as i cant train it..

  4. #304
    Pit Lord Eurytos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iktankniet View Post
    im guessing that you want to know if 5 stacks SoV still is as high tick dmg as when inQ falls off.
    I'll rephrase.

    1)If we have a 5 stack on the boss, then hit Inquisition to increase our holy dmg, does the 5 stack instantly gain the buff or does it need to be refreshed by our melee swing to gain the buff?

    Furthermore,
    2)Assume we have a 5 stack on the boss that is buffed by Inquisition, is it a rolling buff? Meaning that even though the holy dmg buff from Inquisition has fallen off the paladin, does the dot retain the increased dmg?

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-23 at 01:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by iktankniet View Post
    well, testing with InQ will cause trouble as i cant train it..
    Poo.
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice View Post
    This comment isn't directed at you Ik, but I am constantly amazed at the average "type" of players that get the beta invites. I know they want a decent cross-section of players to test things out, but some of the people I know with beta invites..... /facepalm fits best here. My God!! Some of these people don't even have max level characters on live yet!!

    For the WotLK beta, a lot of the players in the "high end" guilds got beta invites. It appears that they opted not to do that this time around.
    One of the quirky traits of testing is that those who have the least experience tend to uncover the most bugs. (At least certain types of bugs) Those of us who are old veterans of the game tend to immediately identify issues to the point that we almost ignore them. We also tend to stick to specific paths.. e.g., if steady shot wasn't being affected by pushback anymore, who would be more likely to know? A new player who stands there and keeps trying to steady after a mob closes to melee, or an old player who is well-versed in kiting, maximizing damage, and knows not to use channeled effects in melee? Heck, I typically won't even start an attack of that sort if I know I will get pushback.

    So don't grimace too much. :P There are plenty of skilled players in the beta as well, and many of the best-known players out there were pulled in for Alpha.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    I'm in the beta as well, I WON'T be using Exorcism until it gets some love.
    Interesting strategy, let's see how it works for him, Cotton...


    Itsatipthatitwontworkverywell.

  7. #307
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velandia View Post
    Interesting strategy, let's see how it works for him, Cotton...


    Itsatipthatitwontworkverywell.
    it hits for less then 3k. and crits for about 4k - 4.5k (no AW used)

    its not that good atm to fill gaps with.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurytos View Post
    I'll rephrase.

    1)If we have a 5 stack on the boss, then hit Inquisition to increase our holy dmg, does the 5 stack instantly gain the buff or does it need to be refreshed by our melee swing to gain the buff?

    Furthermore,
    2)Assume we have a 5 stack on the boss that is buffed by Inquisition, is it a rolling buff? Meaning that even though the holy dmg buff from Inquisition has fallen off the paladin, does the dot retain the increased dmg?
    It's possible they have or will change the tech behind damage over time effects, but so far what we know of the tech says the answer to those questions are linked.
    -If the tech is updated, then (1) will be "It instantly gains the buff.", which also means the damage drops when the buff drops.
    -If the tech is not updated, then I believe the standard "stacking" design is that the damage will only go up when refreshed during InQ, and will only go down when you refresh after InQ has fallen.

    I believe the rolling haste/crit/etc. effects you see in other abilities are related to them being single spells, rather than stacks. So the spell's original values are refreshed, whereas with stacks the values are re-calculated each time you re-stack (even if at max).

    I'm not sure why they're different, or even if they are at this point, as it seems like the two should be handled the same way in the code.

  9. #309
    Crusader Strike definitely needs a 3 second cooldown. Right now I feel like I have way too few buttons to press, especially with holy power regenerating so slowly as it is now.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by iktankniet View Post
    it hits for less then 3k. and crits for about 4k - 4.5k (no AW used)

    its not that good atm to fill gaps with.
    Have either of you even tested our rotation right now? I'd love to see what it looks like without Exorcism in it. What exactly are you using your GCDs for? TV's with 1 or 2 HP? Consecration or Holy Wrath - which both cost nearly triple the mana and do less damage than Exorcism? And that's without even having Exorcism glyphed for 20% more damage.

  11. #311
    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velandia View Post
    Have either of you even tested our rotation right now? I'd love to see what it looks like without Exorcism in it. What exactly are you using your GCDs for? TV's with 1 or 2 HP? Consecration or Holy Wrath - which both cost nearly triple the mana and do less damage than Exorcism? And that's without even having Exorcism glyphed for 20% more damage.
    Define "less damage than Exorcism". Just because it's ticks are smaller, the overall damage and effectiveness of that GCD is probably more valuable.

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  12. #312
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velandia View Post
    Interesting strategy, let's see how it works for him, Cotton...


    Itsatipthatitwontworkverywell.
    It works just fine, You have to understand the mechanics and the new rotation system.

    Exorcism is just as low of damage now as it was previously, If they want it used during normal rotation with higher priority it has to come off the spell hit table. You will get more damage out of a TV, CS cycle then you will out of using Exorcism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  13. #313
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velandia View Post
    Have either of you even tested our rotation right now? I'd love to see what it looks like without Exorcism in it. What exactly are you using your GCDs for? TV's with 1 or 2 HP? Consecration or Holy Wrath - which both cost nearly triple the mana and do less damage than Exorcism? And that's without even having Exorcism glyphed for 20% more damage.
    i specced into imp exor and that gave the 3k hit 4.5k crits
    really, it aint good atm or our talent tree is bugged and doesnt improve our dmg

  14. #314
    Again, display your rotation without Exorcism...

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-23 at 07:03 PM ----------

    With Blessing of Might Buff only, No Glyphs, Exorcism is talented.


    But that's not even the point. Until Crusader Strike is definitely back to 3 seconds cooldown, "wait" is going to be an attack in your rotation without Exorcism.

    And since none of us have Inquisition yet, we're not even accounting for that increase in damage either. I'm not saying the ability is "fine". The talents that affect it aren't "fine" either.
    But it fits in our rotation now just as much as it does on live - if not more than live since we wont be using Divine Storm anymore.
    Last edited by Velandia; 2010-07-23 at 07:09 PM.

  15. #315
    Pit Lord Eurytos's Avatar
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    What is the CD on Templar's Verdict?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uryto/advanced

    If there's one thing I'm not, it's in control.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurytos View Post
    What is the CD on Templar's Verdict?
    Doesn't have one. The only factor to consider when using it is Holy Power.

    Edit:
    1HP = 55% per HP (55% Total)
    2HP = 62.5% per HP (125% Total)
    3HP = 75% per HP (225% Total)

  17. #317
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velandia View Post
    Again, display your rotation without Exorcism...
    Well the biggest issue I see is we still need a filler strikes/abilities and exorcism/holy wrath are terrible one is AE and both are spell hit table which really is horrible for Ret. Were going to be forced to use abilities on with less HP or were going to be forced to have idle time in our rotation or use Exorcism as that filler which is the only place I plan on dropping Exorcism at least for now.

    Were going to follow this for the entire 15 seconds that Zealotry is up, If it's an AE fight were going to be using DS instead of TV, Judgement being a 9 second CD again is actually bad 8 or 7 is where it needs to be. Damage seems buggy right now, You obviously still need to judge to keep your mana coming back but if you can stretch the judgement time out you should to take full advantage of Zealotry.

    I'm still trying to fine tune a rotation I'm feeling like right now I like Judge -> CS -> CS Zealotry -> CS -> IQ -> CS -> TV

    Then you would continue using a CS -> TV until Zealotry is down in which this is where we run into needing filler abilities so far I'm still debating on what to use as the filler but I'm avoiding Exorcism it's the last thing on my priority list.

    Client keeps crashing I'll get back in and work on the rotation so more without Zealotry after I get off work.

    I didn't actually show the pre build up to using the first Zealotry I guess I didn't think about it mattering much as it's going to be in conjunction with out 5 stack ramp up time. I also haven't decided which filler to use but I'm leaning more towards Consecrate then anything else.

    There are a lot of things to be considering we don't have access to right now, But i'm not working on a rotation for leveling I'm just getting the jest of what is best to use and while you want to use exorcism I have zero want to use it.
    Last edited by Requital; 2010-07-23 at 07:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Velandia View Post
    *Holy Power doesn't feel like it generates fast enough. Ghostcrawler has already said they're testing Crusader Strike at 3 second cooldown when talented (like it was last build). In my opinion, this would fix the rotation to where we might not have to use Holy Wrath or Consecration as filler...and it would solve the Holy Power generation rate.
    Currently there are only 2 abilities which generate Holy Power, crusader strike and holy shoch. Rather than reducing cooldowns they could make one or two more abilities generate holy power.

    And speaking of holy power why doesn't prot have an ability to play with HP other than holy shield? Ofc there's Word of Glory but it would be nice if there was a damaging ability also to choose from.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-23 at 08:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Velandia View Post
    Doesn't have one. The only factor to consider when using it is Holy Power.

    Edit:
    1HP = 55% per HP (55% Total)
    2HP = 62.5% per HP (125% Total)
    3HP = 75% per HP (225% Total)
    Can it be used without HP?

  19. #319
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    well before we had the change to Divine purpose, we couldve filled alot more TV's in our rotation instead of exor's. now we have to get lucky to get a HPow back to get it further again.

    so far, ive done a CS -> judge(haste buff) -> conc -> CS -> (2/3 sec gap here) CS -> TV -> repeat rotation

    this would change if judgement would have the 7 sec cd instead of 10sec. then we really wouldnt be needing exor.

  20. #320
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iktankniet View Post
    well before we had the change to Divine purpose, we couldve filled alot more TV's in our rotation instead of exor's. now we have to get lucky to get a HPow back to get it further again.

    so far, ive done a CS -> judge(haste buff) -> conc -> CS -> (2/3 sec gap here) CS -> TV -> repeat rotation

    this would change if judgement would have the 7 sec cd instead of 10sec. then we really wouldnt be needing exor.
    Exactly our biggest issue is we need a 6-8 second Judgement to fill the gap, 8 would be a little weaker of a rotation and 6 to me would be close to perfect but ya 7 would work as well, A 10 second judgement is not only going kill our rotation but I'm wondering about the mana return as well.
    Last edited by Requital; 2010-07-23 at 07:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

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