1. #1101
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    MOUSE TURN

    I'm glad to see it gone.
    Right before it's removal, it dealt damage to everything and only blinded people looking at the paladin.

  2. #1102
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    That was its primary use though, a CC for paladins in PvP(unless it did awesome AoE damage), and only one spec didn't have a cast time.
    My Short Required Reading List: One. Two. || Last.fm

  3. #1103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    That was its primary use though, a CC for paladins in PvP(unless it did awesome AoE damage), and only one spec didn't have a cast time.
    Technically all specs had a cast time, since it was never developed.

    Also note, that this was prior to the Holy Wrath change, so adding in ANOTHER AoE would be useless. However, all Paladins are lacking in the area of CC, moreso when compared to similar roles.

  4. #1104

  5. #1105
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    Quote Originally Posted by conqq View Post
    /Q le Q

    Could someone clue me in to what inquisition is?
    Inquisition, gained at L81
    Consumes Holy Power to increase your Holy Damage by 30%. Lasts 10 4 sec per charge of Holy Power consumed.

    Also:
    Holy Shield:

    Using Inquisition or Shield of the Righteous increases your block chance by 15% for 20 seconds.

  6. #1106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark View Post
    Right before it's removal, it dealt damage to everything and only blinded people looking at the paladin.
    Been wondering, any clue as to what its replacement may be, or is that the role Inquisition fulfills now?
    A voice replied...

    "Not by the hair on my Wrynny chin chin."

    And then Varian Chintercepted Garrosh's cast, then sliced the orcs head off. 24 hours later he was found riding Deathwing over Orgrimmar, burning the city to the ground, laughing maniacally.

  7. #1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Good Captain View Post
    Been wondering, any clue as to what its replacement may be, or is that the role Inquisition fulfills now?
    Inquisition and the Holy Wrath re-work have taken its place.

  8. #1108
    Has there been any word on how much haste will effect crusader strike? Because I belive right now cs is a 4.5sec cd. With the 29% haste we can get before gear that puts cs just above a 3sec cd if it gets the same % as melée swings. So, I think it obvious to assume well get roughly half or worse haste conversion to lowering cs cd. I'm sure blizz doesn't want cs,other,cs, finisher our entry level rotation nor cscscs finisher cscscs finisher at high end gear.
    Pondering returning.
    Nikoll - Retribution Paladin

  9. #1109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoll View Post
    Has there been any word on how much haste will effect crusader strike? Because I belive right now cs is a 4.5sec cd. With the 29% haste we can get before gear that puts cs just above a 3sec cd if it gets the same % as melée swings. So, I think it obvious to assume well get roughly half or worse haste conversion to lowering cs cd. I'm sure blizz doesn't want cs,other,cs, finisher our entry level rotation nor cscscs finisher cscscs finisher at high end gear.
    it isnt implemented yet, so we'll have to wait a bit longer

  10. #1110
    I knew that. Was just wondering if they've mentioned it and it never made front page.
    Pondering returning.
    Nikoll - Retribution Paladin

  11. #1111
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoll View Post
    Has there been any word on how much haste will effect crusader strike? Because I belive right now cs is a 4.5sec cd. With the 29% haste we can get before gear that puts cs just above a 3sec cd if it gets the same % as melée swings. So, I think it obvious to assume well get roughly half or worse haste conversion to lowering cs cd. I'm sure blizz doesn't want cs,other,cs, finisher our entry level rotation nor cscscs finisher cscscs finisher at high end gear.
    are you sure that you are using the correct formula for haste there? i get it to closer to 3.5 seconds

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Haste

    you seem to have been doing the calculation that haste decreases the swingtime/castime or CD directly while it realy increases the amount of times you can swing or cast uin a certain time frame the diference is small at low levels of haste but at higher values it becomes important since 100% haste decreases your swing speed with half wich means you make twice the amounts of attak you would have done otherwise it does not decrease your swingspeed to nothing wich would give you infinite dps and propably crash the server
    Last edited by maaghen; 2010-08-19 at 04:58 PM.
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  12. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by maaghen View Post
    are you sure that you are using the correct formula for haste there? i get it to closer to 3.5 seconds

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Haste
    It should come from Haste RATING and not Haste.

    Haste rating includes haste from gear.
    Haste itself would include attack speed buffs like Windfury, Furry, et al.

  13. #1113
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark View Post
    It should come from Haste RATING and not Haste.

    Haste rating includes haste from gear.
    Haste itself would include attack speed buffs like Windfury, Furry, et al.
    didnt they change WF to just be a mele attakspeed increase instead of a haste effect and it is the same formula both for how haste rating and other haste buffs affect your swing speed you just need to remember that multiple haste buff's stacks multiplaktive(yeye my english sucks i know) and 29% is still not enough for for a 3 second CS its more like a 3.5 seconds CS CD therefore i asked if he used the right formula and as a reference posted the image of said formula from wowwiki and a link to it on wowwiki.
    also bears and cats are furry.
    the calculation for CS new CD with 29% as he said im guessing this is from WF and judgements of the pure would be 4,5/(1.2*1,09)=3,44 so a 3,44 second CD asuming CS scales with haste in te same way as spells and mele attaks do.
    to get it to 3 seconds with 29% you would have to do 4,5*(1-0,29)=3.195
    my guess is that they bwill have CS scale with haste just like every other ability in the game wich means we would need around 50% total haste to bring it down to a 3 second CD so zealotery during hero might be good after all since it would mean we can do a CS TV spamm since hero should be the only time we can reach that level of haste unless we rely sacrified other stats
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  14. #1114
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    WF only affects attack speed- The formula you listed, is for attack speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark View Post
    Haste = Haste decreases the initial cast time of your spells, as well as the amount of time it takes to swing with your weapon..... The formula for finding your weapon speed is given below:

    Base speed / {(1+ Haste effect one)*(1+ Haste effect two)* … *( 1+ [Haste rating
    one + Haste rating two + … + Haste rating N]/2521)}

    For example, if a Paladin with a 3.6 second weapon swing timer is under the effect of both Icy Talons and Heroism, and has 14% Haste from their Haste rating, and uses a Potion of Speed, they would have the following:

    Swing Timer / Icy Talons (20%) * Heroism (30%) * haste from Haste rating
    3.6 seconds / {(1 + 20/100)*(1+ 30/100)*(1+ [352.94 + 500]/2521)} = 1.72 seconds

  15. #1115
    Being as this is the first instance (as far as I know) of haste effects directing changing the cool down of an ability, I don't think that a we can definitely pin down what formula to use. However, The melee attack speed formula will most likely be very similar. Then again, it has two ranks and the second says 'by more than rank 1'. So as far as we know, it is unclear how much each haste effect is applied. The formula is more than likely the reason why it is NYI.

    If we do assume the same formula as attack speed, then we could calculate a guess as to the cool down. So what will effect it? As Windfury and Icy Talons say attack speed, I would presume they are out. However, we should still consider Judgments of the Pure as it states melee haste. Obviously haste from gear will be in effect. Other than that, the only thing I can thing of is Bloodlust/Heroism/Time Warp but they list it as 'Melee, Ranged, and Casting Speed' so I guess not. So pretty much it is boiling down to just haste from gear and possibly Judgments of the Pure.

    The problem I see is, CS has a relatively short cool down anyways, and being as we can not (as current) lower our GCD from abilities, we're going to basically cap out the effect of this talent in stages. What I mean is, currently the ability is at a 4.5 second CD, suppose we lower it all the way down to 3.1 seconds. Unless we delay that .1 second we're not going to see the effect of this talent at all as we'll need use 2 abilities between and make the effective CD at 4.5 seconds again. So we will need at least some minimal amount of haste before this talent is even viable. Like wise, until we have the haste to bring the CD down to 1.5, we will not see any effect past the 3.0 CD either.

    Yes, as clarification, there will be mild gains with a 3.75 cool down if everything else is already on CD, but I presume these will be very mild. Also this is all assuming we will want to keep pressing GCD's rather than wait on CD's. Essentially, play the way we do on live.

  16. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackalopeSpam View Post
    Then again, it has two ranks and the second says 'by more than rank 1'. So as far as we know, it is unclear how much each haste effect is applied. The formula is more than likely the reason why it is NYI.
    You can safe assume that ranks 1 and 2 will be a difference of a multiplicative in the formula, I.E. rank 1 might take the formula and double it, while rank 2 takes the same formula and triples it.

  17. #1117
    Truthfully, though Blinding Shield had limitations, I found it exciting and refreshing. Much more exciting than the Holy Wrath rework and Inquisition *yawn*.

  18. #1118
    Very true, but the problem I still have is the number of GCD's going on between CS's. The talent is going to tier off a bit in the number of GCD's between. No haste, we'll have 2 GCD's filler, some amount 1 GCD between, and then more and we can spam CS on every GCD (if we wanted).

    I think it's clear they want us to have less than 2 GCD's between, as they want us with more Crusader Strikes than Prot. So given a certain minor amount of gear, we get our Crusader Strike CD down to 3.0 seconds. Then we play as as though CS were every other button and we resort back to previous rotation theory crafting. Or we could possible (given high enough levels of haste) go down to a 1.5 second CD for CS. At this point it effectively has no CD. We'll play like a rogue in that we build our Holy Power (combo points) up and then use Templar's Verdict or Inquisition (finishing move).

    What will happen to all of our other abilities they've worked on? Obviously Judgment will have to be maintained for purposes of mana, but will Exorcism or Holy Wrath make the cut?

  19. #1119
    Quote Originally Posted by JackalopeSpam View Post
    What will happen to all of our other abilities they've worked on? Obviously Judgment will have to be maintained for purposes of mana, but will Exorcism or Holy Wrath make the cut?
    If they don't implement a cap somewhere down the line, or if the talent's conversion formula isn't just cheap, Holy Wrath doesn't quite have a chance. But maybe that's their intent, to change things up a bit down the road. Exorcism might though as it, in it's current iteration, hits hard (I'd read nearly as hard as TV) and can also potentially stack HoPow. To give myself an idea of what it's presently like in beta however, I made a 4.5 second CS-themed rotation table for the heck of it last night, assuming two of the five HPGs listed in DP stack HoPow. Typed therein, I've it assumed that every two successful DP-propagated HPGs are followed by three unsuccessful ones. I don't know if this is how it feels on beta right now, though. Looks decent, better with a 3 second CD (only if stopped and recommenced at 28.5 seconds in, and only), and I'm reading good reports (even from non-Ret's that are trying it) thus far. If only parentheses and commas were edible... I could profit from my intervals.
    Last edited by The Good Captain; 2010-08-20 at 12:45 AM.
    A voice replied...

    "Not by the hair on my Wrynny chin chin."

    And then Varian Chintercepted Garrosh's cast, then sliced the orcs head off. 24 hours later he was found riding Deathwing over Orgrimmar, burning the city to the ground, laughing maniacally.

  20. #1120
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark View Post
    WF only affects attack speed- The formula you listed, is for attack speed.

    so you posted the exakt same formula written in anotherway only thing with mine is that it has the calculation to find out how high % increase a bit of haste ratng gives and i mentioned WF only affecting speed i also said that said that the calculations i did there were based on the numbers he ahd given for 29% haste wich i asumed he meant JotP and WF and showed that even calculating it that way wouldn't give a CS CD of 3 seconds the only diference betwen spell haste and mele haste is that they made haste rating scale a bit better for mele attaks since it doesnt affect as big part of our dps as it does for casters.

    the only thing your post has made clear to me here is that you misunderstood what i meant since my point was that 29& haste is in no way enugh for a 3 second CS if it scales with haste in the same way as spells and normal autoattak i also mentioned that WF is just a speed boost at the start of my post not direclty sure i phrased it as a question incase someone had other info and maybe could post some links to their source and then i said that even if it did work as a haste effect and not a mele speed increase it still wouldnt be enough for a 3 sec CS.

    the only thing your posts has proved so far to me is that you misunderstood me but a long time forum goer as you should be able to dechipher the less good english and grammar that shows up here now and then

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-20 at 12:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JackalopeSpam View Post
    Very true, but the problem I still have is the number of GCD's going on between CS's. The talent is going to tier off a bit in the number of GCD's between. No haste, we'll have 2 GCD's filler, some amount 1 GCD between, and then more and we can spam CS on every GCD (if we wanted).

    I think it's clear they want us to have less than 2 GCD's between, as they want us with more Crusader Strikes than Prot. So given a certain minor amount of gear, we get our Crusader Strike CD down to 3.0 seconds. Then we play as as though CS were every other button and we resort back to previous rotation theory crafting. Or we could possible (given high enough levels of haste) go down to a 1.5 second CD for CS. At this point it effectively has no CD. We'll play like a rogue in that we build our Holy Power (combo points) up and then use Templar's Verdict or Inquisition (finishing move).

    What will happen to all of our other abilities they've worked on? Obviously Judgment will have to be maintained for purposes of mana, but will Exorcism or Holy Wrath make the cut?
    or they make mele GCD's scale with haste to making it so that we have 2 GCD's betwen CS even with a 3 sec CS since at that level of haste ~50% the gcd should be down to 1 second and it will make it scale nicely all the way since you will always hit 2 abilitys inbetwen if possible with a very minor or no delay to CS even with the shorter CD the only kind of cap we get then is when we dont have enough abilitys to fill our GCD's.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackalopeSpam View Post
    Very true, but the problem I still have is the number of GCD's going on between CS's. The talent is going to tier off a bit in the number of GCD's between. No haste, we'll have 2 GCD's filler, some amount 1 GCD between, and then more and we can spam CS on every GCD (if we wanted).

    I think it's clear they want us to have less than 2 GCD's between, as they want us with more Crusader Strikes than Prot. So given a certain minor amount of gear, we get our Crusader Strike CD down to 3.0 seconds. Then we play as as though CS were every other button and we resort back to previous rotation theory crafting. Or we could possible (given high enough levels of haste) go down to a 1.5 second CD for CS. At this point it effectively has no CD. We'll play like a rogue in that we build our Holy Power (combo points) up and then use Templar's Verdict or Inquisition (finishing move).

    What will happen to all of our other abilities they've worked on? Obviously Judgment will have to be maintained for purposes of mana, but will Exorcism or Holy Wrath make the cut?
    or they make or they make the GCD's on mele abilitys scale with haste since wich would work realy good with this talent since at the same time as yuor CS cooldown gets lower so does your GCD meaning at ~50% when you have a 3 sec CS asuming it scales in the same way as spells and mele attaks you will still have 2 globals betwen them since GCD should be down to 1 second at that time makihng this a very nice and usefull talent att all points of gearing.
    other than that they can just make sure that we have holes in our rotation were the faster CS will benefit to since we cant use both globals betwen and thus can make use of the shorter CD.
    other than that we can also use both exco and HW in one gap since both are spells and have their gcd affected by haste we can again take use of the shorter CS CD.
    Last edited by maaghen; 2010-08-20 at 12:13 AM.
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