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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark View Post
    Yes it was removed. SoR can be talented in the Ret tree to do an additional 15% Weapon damage on hit and to chain to 2 targets.
    Ah, but will it crit'? That's the question. Any final word on that, either from testers or blue boogey-men?
    A voice replied...

    "Not by the hair on my Wrynny chin chin."

    And then Varian Chintercepted Garrosh's cast, then sliced the orcs head off. 24 hours later he was found riding Deathwing over Orgrimmar, burning the city to the ground, laughing maniacally.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Bytes View Post
    Damn, that sucks, thanks for answering so fast.
    Why does it suck? Seal of Righteousness Judgment always did more damage than Command, and I'm sure Blizzard will make SoR scale with attack power and able to crit now.

  3. #123
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riek View Post
    Zelotry - 30 min cd... isn't that bit too long?
    I could see this being 30min CD. i mean u know how much burst u will get when u pop this. CS , templar's verdict one right after each other for 3 strait time plus the other spells and shit u guys will be doing between this.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by hellar View Post
    I could see this being 30min CD. i mean u know how much burst u will get when u pop this. CS , templar's verdict one right after each other for 3 strait time plus the other spells and shit u guys will be doing between this.
    It doesn't matter how powerful it may seem, having to spec into a 30min cooldown ability is one of the worst ideas Blizzard could come up with.
    We all know its a typo, I wish people would stop trying to justify and argue that it should be a 30min cooldown.

  5. #125
    One would logically assume that if Guardian functioned as a Retribution snare, there would be talents to give it a reasonable cooldown. The fact that there are all of zero talents relating to it right now means there's plenty of opportunity for that.

    That said, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of implementation of an idea I had a while back:

    Burden of Guilt
    Rank: 0/1
    Requires blah points in Retribution Talents.
    All criticals against you cause the attacker to be burdened with guilt, causing them to move X% slower for 10 seconds, stacking Y times for a total of Z% decreased movement.
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  6. #126
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellar View Post
    I could see this being 30min CD. i mean u know how much burst u will get when u pop this. CS , templar's verdict one right after each other for 3 strait time plus the other spells and shit u guys will be doing between this.
    TV costs 20% base mana also.

  7. #127
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meracalis View Post
    One would logically assume that if Guardian functioned as a Retribution snare, there would be talents to give it a reasonable cooldown. The fact that there are all of zero talents relating to it right now means there's plenty of opportunity for that.

    That said, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of implementation of an idea I had a while back:

    Burden of Guilt
    Rank: 0/1
    Requires blah points in Retribution Talents.
    All criticals against you cause the attacker to be burdened with guilt, causing them to move X% slower for 10 seconds, stacking Y times for a total of Z% decreased movement.
    I will accept that there is a possibility for it to be talented, but it would almost be like having a permanent pet (something Blizzard does not want to offer us) by using it every 45 seconds just to snare someone. Pretty sure that would be fairly annoying for the guardian also.

    I actually prefer your own idea. It means that we can't continually snare our opponents unfairly, but if they are trying to kite us around, we do have some way to react to that. It would probably be better as a chance on normal damage, though.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Meracalis View Post
    One would logically assume that if Guardian functioned as a Retribution snare, there would be talents to give it a reasonable cooldown. The fact that there are all of zero talents relating to it right now means there's plenty of opportunity for that.

    That said, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of implementation of an idea I had a while back:

    Burden of Guilt
    Rank: 0/1
    Requires blah points in Retribution Talents.
    All criticals against you cause the attacker to be burdened with guilt, causing them to move X% slower for 10 seconds, stacking Y times for a total of Z% decreased movement.
    So Burden of Guilt is a knock off of a Mage's Frost Armor? I don't see that happening.

  9. #129
    I'd look at it as an upgrade to Eye for an Eye. Just because it's a reactive snare doesn't make it a Frost Armor clone.
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  10. #130
    Still, i don't think they'll give us something reactive without first removing retribution aura and/or eye for an eye. That's starting to get into to many reason why you shouldn't attack a retadin. Anything we get as a closer will more than likely be proactive I think

    Personally I'm still for a minor spring like mechanic added to hand of freedom, think something like the current body and soul talent of Holy Priests. Relatively short CD, but somewhere between a sprint and a charge. Possible that it would only effect the paladin casting it and not other players.

  11. #131
    Paladins still have Hand of Freedom, and if anything They are being changed because they have To many defensive abilities and thus have to have their offense tuned down. By nerfing their defense they can buff their offense.

  12. #132
    I think we won't get some sort of charge/leap mechanic, nor are we gonna get a simple hamstring-like snare. It just doesn't fit retribution, plus they stated again they want to further distinguish us from warriors, therefore removing any of these mechanics from the table.

    I think we either see some sort of sprint/movement speed increase, similar to body and soul as someone said before (which also includes boosting someone else's speed by HoF'ing him) added through talented/glyphed (mind medium glyphs!) Hand of Freedom, or summoning our guardian will boost our speed, similar to how the spirit wolves boost an enhancement shamans speed. But I think its cooldown would be too long for that matter.

    If I could think of anything beyond JoJ's speed limitation, I think we'd get a short daze. God, I'd love to get Avenger's Shield, switching to SW/B to use it would certainly add some more depth, too. But then again, might be too much of a warrior move again, although blinding shields will make us switch to SW/B, too. Hmm...that was a disorient, right? If we could only make it instant cast...

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Meracalis View Post
    I'd look at it as an upgrade to Eye for an Eye. Just because it's a reactive snare doesn't make it a Frost Armor clone.
    I'm actually not sure why they're keeping E4E. Its passive nature and the problems they had with reflective damage made me think it a prime candidate for removal.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-22 at 08:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hellar View Post
    I could see this being 30min CD. i mean u know how much burst u will get when u pop this. CS , templar's verdict one right after each other for 3 strait time plus the other spells and shit u guys will be doing between this.
    I can't.

    Blizzard have stated repeatedly about the problems about balancing around super long durations. You can either be balanced with it, or without it, but not both.

    EJL

  14. #134
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark View Post
    Cleanse is worth a lot more than gaining a 5 yard Interrupt.
    Certainly. I was just saying that that sort of loss isn't unique to ret paladins, so I don't really think it's reasonable to count it on the tally of things Ret lost.

    Just depends on the discussion, I suppose. From my perspective, a lot of this is in the context of ret as balanced vs. ranged in PVP, and how that compares to other specs.

    It does feel like Blizz has painted themselves into a corner, here. Deciding that dispel on friendlies is a healer-specific capability, while simultaneously (apparently) maintaining that part of Ret's flavor is its weakness to kiting... What can they do? It seems they'll have to give ret a snare or sprint of some sort. HoF buffs might be enough too, but I haven't thought that through much in light of new mechanics for each spec.

  15. #135
    Another option might be some sort of snare that scales with holy power consumed, or something like Speed of Light but for Ret. Though I just read Ghostcrawler's comments about the philosophy behind the Ret changes and I think there's a fair chance we won't be getting any sort of gap closer, to balance out what looks to be very nice burst.
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  16. #136
    High Overlord Azurewraith's Avatar
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    Guessing theres no new info on what our gurdian does then. Hopeing it wont just be a gargoyle or a DRW as that would be lame.

    Good to see some points cut from the tree (wonder if they will get replacments)

    From what i can see TV has no CD now while not a problem in PvE im thinking PvP kneejerk nerfs i know large catty health pools and stam being double wepon dmg but still imagine this scenario:

    Ret gets close to priest(healer), there patner is over the other side of the arena wailing on your holy pala healer and he is just poping WoG to stay alive shocking there patner and instant exos off becon target along with HoW (2.7k dmg scaling with SP to some degree so lets say for 5k a pop) other your 3rd member is busy ccing theres. You Repent priest for gapcloser he trinks you get close he fears you trink you then HoJ pop zealtory CS TV cs TV etc now HoJ is 6seconds gcd is one second so thats 2free cs (170% wep dmg correct me if wrong) and 2 TVS at 225% wepon dmg so thats (ok may make mistake here maths is not my strong suite 740% wepon dmg. Now thats alot then we can AT if belf for 2secon dilence thats another cs then Rebuke his heal then start tv spam again we allready have judments mana effect rolling +DP mana new mana reg mechanic cant think of name and Mp5 from BoM i cant see us ooming during this. now at 80 TV Zealtory HoJ explosions will be common hope we dont get broken at 85 due to poor 80 scaling.

  17. #137
    They said they're being careful not to make the mistake of nerfing us because of imbalances at level 80 again.
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  18. #138
    I think GC said something like:
    "If there's a specc we want to avoid overbuffing, so we don't have to nerf them again, it's ret."

    Also concerning the whole pvp issue...as someone said in the old thread yesterday, if you're serious about pvp, go engineer. I think that applies especially for ret's, since you get a speed boost and a ranged interrupt (grenades) plus, you won't have to pop bubble when jumping/being pushed off ledges thanks to the parachute.
    I've made up my mind, collecting materials now
    Last edited by Zelotes; 2010-07-22 at 07:48 AM. Reason: forgot sumthin

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddlesnarf View Post
    It doesn't matter how powerful it may seem, having to spec into a 30min cooldown ability is one of the worst ideas Blizzard could come up with.
    We all know its a typo, I wish people would stop trying to justify and argue that it should be a 30min cooldown.
    I agree thirty minutes is far to long, you would use it once in a dungeon and maybe 4-5 times in and endgame raid meaning not every boss encounter...

  20. #140
    High Overlord Falkus's Avatar
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    While all these new ret skills and talents look promising, I've a bad feeling that it's going to be 3.0 all over again.


    "Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea."

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