CC in cataclysm...

[Deleted]

Off-topic: aww man, just saw a TV ad for Starcraft 2! I'm not a fan of RTS/Dota style games at all but the quality and production was superhigh. Where's our Cata epic Burning-Crusade-Vanilla style epic cinematic trailer, Blizzard?!

[seam]

Maybe it's not skill but it's something a whole new generation of player hasn't had to do before and it's something the older generation may be a little rusty on.

No matter how easy or hard something is to do, there will always be growing/learning pains the first couple of times you do it.

Unless of course you are some kind of savant or in all actuality merely a fast study.

Now I agree. 100%.

It's going to be a hilarious first few months, that's for sure.

[heerobya]

I am most likely going to be flamed to death here but i always found CC far more dull that AoE ever was.

And no as things currently stand classes are just not equal when it comes to CC abilities so i can't help but fear that it will lead to favoritism, don't tell me that it wont because that's exactly what happened in tbc, stuff like: ''sorry your dps and your skill as a player may be great but i will need CC for X heroic'' and all that loveliness.

There are usually what (random guess) 10x more DPS in LFG queue then tanks and healers? All it takes is Blizzard updating their script to make sure of the 3 DPS is chooses to put in a random group, one of them has CC capabilities necessary for that dungeon.

Pretty much everything but Warriors and DK's have reliable CC. Warriors and Dk's can throw on a shield/stance change and off tank and DK's can kite mobs too.

It's possible...

[Nayt]

I don't think you can call an ability like repentance reliable CC. It's pretty much a joke due to the 1 min CD.

Oh how absolutely wrong you are.

*Marks Healer NPC with a Skull*
*Marks Caster 1 NPC with a Square*
*Marks Caster 2 NPC with a Moon*

[Tank]: Repent square, Ice Trap moon, burn skull first.
[Tank]: Go ahead and CC pull, dropping my Con right in their path to pick'em up.

I used to have (Probably still do) a "Kill Order" macro that I would post up prior to starting a run. I would modify it based on which classes were in the group, and I kept the symbols the same per DPS. Each pull they knew if they had to CC because their symbol would be over a mobs head. The fact that Repentance lasts for as long as it does is precisely why it's so reliable. If DPS or your tank break CC then that's on them, and it doesn't make your CC less reliable it makes the CC breakers less reliable.

I'm sure plenty of people remember their GM's posting "CC Breaker" reports in raid ...

[seam]

I'm sure plenty of people remember their GM's posting "CC Breaker" reports in raid ...

Good times...

"Dude, I'm not sure why I have 38 breaks. My Curse of Agony just keeps getting put on the sheep on accident!"

[rabbimojo]

...
Pretty much everything but Warriors and DK's have reliable CC.
...

Intimidating shout is becoming a ST cower now I think..?

I don't think you can call an ability like repentance reliable CC. It's pretty much a joke due to the 1 min CD.

1 min cooldown isn't really a problem unless you need to CC more often than that.
Reasons you'd need to:
1) each pack is short and you need to CC multiple packs in a row: Blizz has talked about having roughly 1 in 3 pulls CC-oriented. It's easy to imagine them being equally or near-equally spaced, so you get at the very least one non-CC pull per CC pull. Then, voila, repentance is up again.
2) Multiple CCs in a single pack: Rogues can't do this either unless we're going to count Blind as a proper CC, in which case HoJ is about as good, on a shorter CD, and allows damage to the target.

Anyways, a lot of specs don't have extremely solid CC. How useful is shackle undead going to be in Cata?

The point is not for every spec to have a toolbox full of CCs. It's just that each group needs to have enough CC to get through the pulls.

---------- Post added 2010-07-22 at 02:19 PM ----------

what's intelligence in dps not casting aoe spells lol

1) ST rotations are typically far more involved than AOEing
2) Having CC on a pull means being aware of where you're standing so you don't damage CC'd mobs.
3) I'm guessing you didn't play a warlock in BC. As someone earlier mentioned, a good warlock was a CC maestro, and it took quite a lot of presence of mind to keep track of everything while still doing DPS.

[GennGreymane]

cc will be used for the first month

and once ppl out gear the content

it will be gone

and then ppl will bitch heroics are too easy een though they currently out gear it and thus makes it a retarded argument.... oh wait we are currently having that argument

[cehawe]

It's not about CC in the first Place. It is about PVE-Enemies in dungeons to be again foes you have to realy care about - CCs may, situationaly, indeed be the only way.
It is about having the need for Strategies even in 5man hcs, which makes it simply much more amusing than just aoe all down (which for sure will be case in 5man hc also in Cata, comes the time/gear)
And to all, that are worried abaout DPS, Tanks and healers unable to adapt: calm down! people will adapt this time, as they did every time
Cheers!

[backor]

I still don't like single target tanking at all.

[Zookz25]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtOT3i0lvpM

There's an example of CC in normal Throne of Tides. There's nothing heavy at all; just a few freezing traps that I saw. I hope heroic mode is even more challenging and not so drastically outgeared later on.

Did anyone else notice that through a large portion of this video, they WERE focus firing a lot of mobs; not to mention that every time they tried to AoE a pack that should of been CCed, they had their asses handed to them? We can't really speak for heroics, but all of those times that someone died, there most likely would of been a good chance they'd wiped (one of them even died at the start of the first boss).

Not saying that CC really requires skill, but it at least requires you to think about which mob you should target, which spells to cast on that target, what mobs will do once aggravated and how to deal with the mobs abilities, as well as having a genuine amount of vigilance, awareness, and understanding for each instance; whereas AoEing really doesn't require you to think about anything more than spamming your blizzard on the tank.

[Arashi]

I'm not too fond of cc, it just gives the illusion that the trash mobs are 'hard' or that it takes 'skill' in order to get through trash. But all it accomplishes is dragging things on and on and wasting time, i just want to get in there get it done and move on.

[heerobya]

I'm not too fond of cc, it just gives the illusion that the trash mobs are 'hard' or that it takes 'skill' in order to get through trash. But all it accomplishes is dragging things on and on and wasting time, i just want to get in there get it done and move on.

You are exactly what is wrong with World of Warcraft right now and with the Wrath of the Lich King expansion as a whole.

[Deleted]

I'm not too fond of cc, it just gives the illusion that the trash mobs are 'hard' or that it takes 'skill' in order to get through trash. But all it accomplishes is dragging things on and on and wasting time, i just want to get in there get it done and move on.

heerobya beat me to it.

[Arashi]

Oh i'm sorry, i forgot that not agreeing with the people that like to complain and complain about things are not 'hard' or 'challenging' enough is a bad idea and i also forgot that wanting to just get things over with instead of wasting time on tedious mechanics is a bad idea too. I forgot that the issue is rather sensitive to people who cant accept the fact that Wrath of the Lich King streamlined raiding and made heroic 5-mans less of a pain in the ass, cause i so loved waiting for my specific 5 man group to get on so that we could do some heroics back in BC and i distinctly remember even back then people were stupid, so i doubt that implementing crowd control will fix that.

Deal with it.

[snowblind]

You are exactly what is wrong with World of Warcraft right now and with the Wrath of the Lich King expansion as a whole.

To a point, he's right. CC being required is not a skill, nor is it really a challenge - it's a pacing mechanism. Yes, being able to bulldoze through heroics when literally anybody can be at least two tiers ahead of them does get boring... but on the other hand, if I'm at least two tiers ahead of the heroics, I should be afforded some liberties like that.

But there's also a middle ground.

If we go back to the days of TBC where 2-3 of every single trash pack needs to be CC'd somehow, it'll get really old, really fast. The only saving grace of TBC heroics is that they were purely a means to an end. Once you got the gear necessary to do Karazhan, you didn't have to run a lot of heroics anymore.

With the ever-so-thoughtful change, where you get some of the "best" emblem equivalent for running a heroic a day... having to constantly CC everything in heroics throughout the lifespan of the expansion will be tiresome as hell.

[Arashi]

502 Double post

[snowblind]

Edit: Yay Bad Gateway doublepost.

[staticflare]

[QUOTE=backor;8411545]
What I find fun is multiple targets at once in my face.

Rofl. OT: I kinda agree with you I loved aoe tanking with my pally and im sure going to miss it

[heerobya]

i just want to get in there get it done and move on.

No THIS is the problem.

It's not about accomplishing anything or God forbid any challenge, it's all about getting stuff now getting it faster getting more of it getting it bigger getting it NOW getting it easier...

An entire generation of spoiled little children.

Now I'm not saying the really "old school" way of having to pull teeth to get anywhere was any better, time sink does not = challenge...

Cataclysm needs a fine balance between the time/challenge investment of TBC heroics and the lawl faceroll epeen waving of WotLK heroics.

[snowblind]

it's all about getting stuff now getting it faster getting more of it getting it bigger getting it NOW getting it easier...

This is a definite time where the old adage of "Hate the player, not the game" goes out the window because it is simply the players adapting to changes in game systems.

Believe me, before I cancelled my account, if I couldn't get frost emblems from a daily heroic, I wouldn't have done them. The feeling of heroics being "required" is what has caused the "Get in, go through the motions as fast as possible, get the fuck out" mentality.

This isn't going to go away. By the time tier 12 rolls around and people start getting bored of the whole 6 heroics present in Cataclysm, but are "forced" to run them anyway to get Valor points... being also forced to adhere to a pacing mechanism like a heavy CC requirement is going to piss quite a few people off.

Which is why it won't be the all out CC orgy that you and people like you have a raging hard-on for. They had their chance to keep heroics at possible 2-3 hour ordeals, and they got rid of it.