Thread: New talents

  1. #1

    Thumbs down New talents

    Am i the only one here that hates the new way of speccing? i mean, its imba dumb, no options... its like having 3 buttons at trainer "disc, holy and shadow", w/o having a possibility to choose something more. Not to mention that we have to throw away points just to get into the next tier. Also, this 3, instead of 5 pts... i can understand why it is .3 sec cast time decrease instead of .5(maybe a way of nerfing or smth), but how can it be 60% chance to apply mind trauma?? its something i have to rely on, not a random procc ffs...

  2. #2
    I've been seriously wondering if blizzard won't add a fifth column of talents in the trees. This way, we get more depth in our choices, and it's easier to add more 1 and 2 pt talents. A 3pt talent today is not that different from a 6pt talent on live. It's boring, especially when the talent don't give you much.

    The current trees need another pass. Disc needs a way to specc a healer. Holy needs to rework 95% of the existing talents. Shadow need a whole lot more interesting effects rather than just those passive +damage talents. I've been worrying about whether this would happen myself, but yesterday I finally managed to convince myself that it will. Reasoning being that inspiration is a 3 pt talent in the holy tree, but only a 2 pt talent in the shaman tree. So in the words of the wise: Patience.

    Really though... here's a challenge:

    What kind of new talents DO you want to see? Frankly, a lot of the stuff we have right now are stupid, buggy, broken or pure talent dumps (with low impact to boot). There is a lot of grounds to change stuff here, what's your take on it? As the title suggests, what new talents would you like to see?

    ---

    Personally, I want chakra to be the new holy passive ability. Throw Desperate Prayer out already. Blizzard need to admit that the only reason they stuffed it down our throat is because they don't want discpriests to take it come next next expansion. And that's frankly bad design. There is absolutely no reason to level as holy come cataclysm; disc and shadow rock in comparison. And the value of a raiding holypriest is dubious at best as it is right now.

    But chakra seriously need a rework as well. The only remotely interesting chakra effect is the renew one, and that's only because it's blatantly OP. I would very much like to see seven possible chakra effects, all possible to "unlock" at any given time.

    Not-quite-thought-through idea, the idea is to change the experience of a holypriest instead of just add some extra throughput:

    Base Chakra:
    Activated by healing or hurting the same target three times. Lasts 20 seconds.
    Basic Healing spells [heal, gheal, lheal] and attack spells [smite,holyfire] have a 10 yds longer range.

    Sacral Chakra:
    Uhm... this chakra is hard to deal with... but the effect has to be related to e-peens. Check it out on wikipedia ^^
    Activated by casting four different spells [not in a row]. Lasts 20 seconds.
    Increase your spellpower by 25% of your spirit.
    I really miss that talent anyway

    Solar Plexus Chakra:
    Activated by casting smite. Lasts 20 seconds.
    While this chakra is active, Smite deal 25% more damage when the target is affected by Holy Fire.
    Just like the glyph, which will likely vanish anyway

    Heart Chakra:
    Activated by casting renew on three different people. Lasts 20 seconds.
    While this chakra is active, The global cooldown of renew is reduced by 0.5 seconds.

    Throat Chakra:
    Activated by casting any prayer [mending, fortitude, shadow protection, healing] or hymn [hope, divine]. Lasts 20 seconds.
    While active, mana regeneration from spirit is increased by 15%.
    Might even replace the Holyconc talent if you want it to

    Eye Chakra:
    Activated by casting any AoE spell two times [poh, coh, hn]. Lasts 20 seconds.
    While this chakra is active, Circle of Healing and Prayer of Mending heals one additional target.

    Mind Chakra:
    Activated by activating at least three other chakras. Lasts while at least three other chakras are active.
    While this chakra is active, all healing cooldowns tick down twice as fast. [prom, coh, dh, dp, lw]

    --

    Numbers can be tweaked.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jagerftw View Post
    Am i the only one here that hates the new way of speccing?
    Ya pretty much.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    So in the words of the wise: Patience.
    Our trees are a little bloated right now, to say the least. By comparison, a resto druid can pick up every talent available to reduce mana cost and to enhance healing performance and still have enough 'option' talents around to further enhance their dps or pick up swift movement in cat form.

    We're still a ways away from the trees as we will see them in live.
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  5. #5
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Yea, our trees suck ass ATM. Holy is the only "solid" tree at this point. Shadow is decent, but its no different than the current tree except that we don't get 100% bonus dmg to crits. Disc is a complete joke unless you want to be a shitty hybrid healer who wants to do dps but who's guild wont let go shadow so you pretend to heal by tossing out a few pws here and there and smite spamming the rest of the time.

    Also, only 1 chakra can be active at a time so that last idea you have listed isn't very viable.

    My thoughts on shadow are quite similar if ALMOST ALL of our talents are dmg increase talents, maybe its time to reconsider the spell power coefficients of shadow spells. That, and give us a high level shadow talent to reduce the channel time of mind flay by some set amount. That or I'm using t10 bonus until it burns itself into the ground. But seriously, if we have that many dmg increase talents we need reconsideration for spell power contribution

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  6. #6
    Disc is a complete joke unless you want to be a shitty hybrid healer who wants to do dps but who's guild wont let go shadow so you pretend to heal by tossing out a few pws here and there and smite spamming the rest of the time.
    Exactly
    Well my point wasnt that just talents suck (cz we have that right now somewhere too), but the way of specing. No options, no fun. only the noobs who dont know which talent what means will benefit from this.... for other ppl, this is just boring...

  7. #7
    Even if the Disc tree is a bit bloated, you can pretty much get a clear-cut build and see what the developers are trying to achieve.

    Holy on the other hand is EXTREMELY bloated with a bunch of "meh" talents, you can't get lots of the basic Holy talents that we've got used to and the Disc sub-speccing is just terrible. You're currently stuck with lots of 2/3 and 1/2 talents that you'd really want to max out but can't. Basically the whole tree screams "sorry guys, the devs have no idea what to do with me"... starting with Desperate Prayer as the base spell... Seriously?

    - Holy needs a new base spell which is NOT Desperate Prayer.
    - Merge Improved Renew and Empowered Renew into 1 talent for 3 points.
    - Remove Empowered Healing (make it baseline) or merge it with Improved Healing.
    - Reduce Inspiration to 2 points.
    - Remove Lightwell prereq from Chakra.
    - Re-design Chakra cuz currently it's painfully situational.
    - Make Twin Disciplines 2 points.
    - Add new 1-2 point talents to Holy that actually DO something
    - Make Improved Inner Fire more accessible even if we pick Evangelism-Archangel (which we will).
    - And for the love of God, do something with Lightwell.

    About having Evangelism+Archangel: it is clear that the developers want to give every healing specc a damage-based mana return, which is quite cool in my opinion. It's not just us, it's every healer. And the 15% increased healing is sweet.
    Last edited by nevermore; 2010-07-22 at 05:04 PM.

  8. #8
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    forcing people to take 31 pts in each tree ruined it. there could have been a fun hybrid holy dps spec but it was like 15/26 or something,

    but yea, hopefully our tree gets an overhaul. its grim as it stands now.

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  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Vidur's Avatar
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    Clearly the trees they have presented us with are complete and ready for live realms. Seriously though, they've done 1 (or 2?) passes on these trees...need I direct your to the Twitter chat?

    Q: What class are you currently most happy with how the talents are currently set up? Is there one you feel needs more work?

    A. They all need more work!


    If we're a day from launch and you're not happy...then complain. For now though, there's no point. >.>

    'What other people think of me is none of my business" - RuPaul

  10. #10
    These trees can't even be seen anywhere near beta. The trees themselves are an alpha, in a beta phase of a game.

    We haven't even had 1 pass at the class, yet, instead we've had an idea thrown in there because they wanted to justify the passive at level 10 for Holy.

    Our time will come, but until then, less "sky is falling" about shitty talents please. I'm not even going to bother looking across WoWTal, until we get our turn. I'd suggest to everyone else to do the same.
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  11. #11
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Well, there is a thread by a guy who said how much he hates ppl that say "It's only beta", so...


    It's only beta ^^
    (but if you hate 31 talent trees per se, you better get out now, because you wont get 51 talent trees back)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  12. #12
    I didnt say i want 51 pt talents back, i just said this is dumb and noobish, regardless of quantity. They still could make this do better...
    The guy called Nevermore had a nice example how it could be fixed imo.

  13. #13
    I'm just worried about powerful talents some classes are losing that blizzard deem boring.

    Spiritual guidance spellpower by 25% of spirit.
    Healing way +25% healing from healing wave.
    Holy guidance 20% spellpower from int.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll View Post
    forcing people to take 31 pts in each tree ruined it. there could have been a fun hybrid holy dps spec but it was like 15/26 or something,

    but yea, hopefully our tree gets an overhaul. its grim as it stands now.
    Agreed, I don't understand the logic behind forcing people to put 31 points into one tree. They want people to have more options, more flexibility, but they seem to have done the exact opposite. The primary skills of each tree should provide enough incentive for those who wants to play a 31 pointer spec to do so. As for those of us who likes to experiment, we won't get the primary skills, which is a fine tradeoff. But removing that option completely is very foolish on their part.

    I understand their new system is partially adjusted to smooth out leveling experience. However, what they can do is keep the new system for leveling only, so that when you are not level capped, you must reach down to 31 points then unlock the other trees. However, once you have hit 85, hybrid spec becomes available and you are free to put points into all 3 trees, but you will only receive the primary skill of a tree if you put 31 points in it.

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelaeno View Post
    Agreed, I don't understand the logic behind forcing people to put 31 points into one tree. They want people to have more options, more flexibility, but they seem to have done the exact opposite. The primary skills of each tree should provide enough incentive for those who wants to play a 31 pointer spec to do so. As for those of us who likes to experiment, we won't get the primary skills, which is a fine tradeoff. But removing that option completely is very foolish on their part.

    I understand their new system is partially adjusted to smooth out leveling experience. However, what they can do is keep the new system for leveling only, so that when you are not level capped, you must reach down to 31 points then unlock the other trees. However, once you have hit 85, hybrid spec becomes available and you are free to put points into all 3 trees, but you will only receive the primary skill of a tree if you put 31 points in it.
    You only factor in half of their intentions as their whole, a commonly made mistake.

    Yes, they want players to not feel "pigeon-holed" in their spec choices. HOWEVER, they also want to assist as much as they can with this new talents idea with PvP balancing. Blizzard has shown (through awful attempts) and proven (via the same) that balancing hybrid specs for PvP only leads to one thing....several hardcore nerfs. Look at the Arena builds that have been highly powerful and dominant in the past, such as restokins and now protret.

    Completely eliminating the player's ability to use such builds will make balancing specs in PvP VASTLY easier to do, as now instead of saying "X is too powerful for Y in Z build", they can simply eliminate X from even GETTING Y, and Z build does not exist.

    By "having more options", they simply mean they don't want you to be forced to spec 33/8/0. They don't want 30 of your 31 talent points in one tree to go into mandatory talents, as several trees work today. That's what they mean about options.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    Look at the Arena builds that have been highly powerful and dominant in the past, such as restokins and now protret.
    HARP says hi


    Hell, this is even killing muti/prep. I think PvP in cata is gonna be a whole different animal, and I really look forward to it.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Can´t say I like the current means of picking talents - but if they want to try it out its their choice obviously. The whole "have to pick 31 points" really blows up alot of things in regards of freedom of choice - fx. maybe you actually don´t like the 31 point talent or just want to test something different.

    Anyways with current talents it would be http://www.wowtal.com/#k=BeyEOf70.9q4.priest for decent disc spec - thinking in not having to use instants so much (or just having to outlive the mana costs) - and holy something like http://www.wowtal.com/#k=tb2Pu-fg.9q4.priest. On a sidenote priests also seems to be only healing class without some talent adding a dispell to their talents (pretty much all others get "also dispells X when using...").

  18. #18
    Mechagnome Synaia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible View Post
    Can´t say I like the current means of picking talents - but if they want to try it out its their choice obviously. The whole "have to pick 31 points" really blows up alot of things in regards of freedom of choice - fx. maybe you actually don´t like the 31 point talent or just want to test something different.

    Anyways with current talents it would be http://www.wowtal.com/#k=BeyEOf70.9q4.priest for decent disc spec - thinking in not having to use instants so much (or just having to outlive the mana costs) - and holy something like http://www.wowtal.com/#k=tb2Pu-fg.9q4.priest. On a sidenote priests also seems to be only healing class without some talent adding a dispell to their talents (pretty much all others get "also dispells X when using...").
    druids also haven't got a talent that also dispells x when using.... though they get dispell defensive magic i think (atleast soemthing with magic), abolish poison is gone and now the cure poison will take it's place if i remember it me correctly

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    Holy needs a new base spell which is NOT Desperate Prayer.
    Desperate Prayer is really disappointing for a 10 lvl priest, besides Binding Prayer talent is too deep to make it more atractive. I like the new talent, but I still think that Holy Nova would be a better spell for a 10 lvl holy priest.

    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    Merge Improved Renew and Empowered Renew into 1 talent for 3 points.
    Absolutly agree. With a shorter talent tree there's no reason to keep 2 boring talents to improve Renew.

    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    Remove Empowered Healing (make it baseline) or merge it with Improved Healing.
    I really dislike how the entire game is becoming more simple to be easier for new players. And I'm absolutly disagree with the "dumb" concept that Blizzard has about new players. They want simple talents on first tiers, but imo, a player that don't understand Body and Soul won't understand Empowered Healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    -Reduce Inspiration to 2 points.
    - Remove Lightwell prereq from Chakra.
    - Re-design Chakra cuz currently it's painfully situational.
    - Make Twin Disciplines 2 points.
    - Add new 1-2 point talents to Holy that actually DO something
    Completly agree. Lightwell being prereq for Chakra is just for beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    Make Improved Inner Fire more accessible even if we pick Evangelism-Archangel (which we will).
    Imo Improved Inner Fire talent should be removed, and its bonus should be included to the basic armor.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Synaia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    - Remove Lightwell prereq from Chakra.
    lightwell is only a prereq of chakra on the beta as blizzard wants to let people test lightwell. on later beta tests or the live patch it won't be a prereq.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2010-07-25 at 03:25 PM. Reason: Snip

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