Give Holy another sort of Judgement than Light.

[Råize]

Judgements are considered a ranged melee attack and that means if a Holy paladin has Seal of Wisdom up they can get around 4% of their mana back every 10 secs this is why they stack intellect. Crying about meters shoudnt matter if anything a holy pally should drop Judgement of Wisdom, if and only if there is a prot or ret pally in the raid. This should be done so that every time they judge they recieve around 6-8% of their mana back, aka making them more efficient healers.

[Badpaladin]

With the buff where it is now, it's still possible for people to die. Otherwise, every single guild would be 12/12 Heroic and that's certainly not the case.

I'm of the opinion that if people are dying on anything other than ignoring fight mechanics and LK, there's a lot more wrong with the raid than JoL meter padding.

[Ronark]

Divinity increases JoL healing done. Anyone judging Light when there's someone with 5/5 Divinity is stupid.

2% HP, or 2.1% HP?

Hmmm, I really notice that extra 34 HP healed

[kenn9530]

i judge as often as i can as everytime you judge it has a good chance to give me around 1.5k mana, i dont really care about the JoL heals i judge mainly for extra mana regen and to keep the haste buff up, i always judge JoL as it always helps the raid and its best to keep up as much as possible.

[Lumidar]

so.... i'm a Prot Pally... and yesterday i did a Pug 25man ICC and I was tanking on Festergut.

I ended up 4th on Healing Meters (with 6 healers) and 8th on Damage Meters... yes some were shitty pugs but that's just funny.

i judge as often as i can to maintain Judgement of the Just AND Heart of the Crusader (if there's no ret) and i use Light because not many people actually benefit from wisdom aside hunters and shamans and even then fights dont usually last long enough for them to have serious mana issues.


back on topic though...
JoL heals for 2% of Max HP so fir this example im taking a tank with 60k HP fully buffed.
2% would heal him for 1200.
2.1% would heal him for 1260. (divinity 5/5)

so it takes a tank with 60k HP to gain an extra 60hp per tick... i highly doubt that 60hp is worth precisely timing a judgement and sacrificing whatever else you were going to cast which would've healed for ALOT more to somebody who actually NEEDS it.

so in conclusion, Holy doesn't need a new Judgement.... nor does any pally need a build specific Judgement to please their ego.

[Deleted]

I usually spam JOW to keep the haste buff up. I did try spamming JOTL once, the shameful increase to your healing done is disgusting.. :P if there is more than one holy pally and a pally tank i usually just use the odd wisdom judgement to keep haste buff up.

[Elessa]

The only encounter where JoL healing has been useful was Heroic Anub'arak. Other than that, the healing is largely inconsequential. In order for a Holy Paladin (who is likely the only Paladin with Divinity) to maintain 100% uptime on JoL, they need to judge once per 20 seconds or three times more often than is required to keep up Judgements of the Pure. 3 globals per minute doesn't seem that ridiculous, but then you need to throw in the other 2 globals every minute you need to spend to maintain your other buffs. This interferes greatly with the ideal refresh cycle (which prevents you from wasting anymore than one global per 15 seconds).

Even though a Ret or Prot Paladin may provide less JoL healing, the raid as a whole gains more *important* healing when your Holy Paladins aren't wasting those two extra globals.




With the buff where it is now, it's still possible for people to die. Otherwise, every single guild would be 12/12 Heroic and that's certainly not the case.

Judging is the best way to regen mana.

i judge as often as i can as everytime you judge it has a good chance to give me around 1.5k mana, i dont really care about the JoL heals i judge mainly for extra mana regen and to keep the haste buff up, i always judge JoL as it always helps the raid and its best to keep up as much as possible.

No. Judging wisdom will only give you 2% BASE mana, which is very little mana.

2% HP, or 2.1% HP?

Hmmm, I really notice that extra 34 HP healed

34*25 = 850. Yes, it's a small amount, but so is every other healing or dps increasing talent (1% crit per talent for example).

[Accuser.]

To recap my point (and what I think is the point of the OP) it would be nice if this spell which results in healing were more effective for the holy spec than a tank or dps spec.

That's all

Holy wont "need" more raid healing, and we dont "need" to boost the meters. It would be nice to have this spell do more healing as holy spec though!

[Lumidar]

but the point blizzard was making is that they balanced the fights with having Judgment of Light on the boss during the encounter so if there was no holy pally in the raid and JoL was Holy only then it would all be unbalanced. which is why ALL paladins share this same buff so that no matter what KIND of paladin is in your raid the fight is still balanced by having this.

if you start splitting things within specs then we should give Blood Lust to Enhancement shamans only, and battle rez to Tree druids only... seems only fair right? (/sarcasm)

[Elessa]

but the point blizzard was making is that they balanced the fights with having Judgment of Light on the boss during the encounter so if there was no holy pally in the raid and JoL was Holy only then it would all be unbalanced. which is why ALL paladins share this same buff so that no matter what KIND of paladin is in your raid the fight is still balanced by having this.

if you start splitting things within specs then we should give Blood Lust to Enhancement shamans only, and battle rez to Tree druids only... seems only fair right? (/sarcasm)

It's not nearly the same thing. The diffrence between Bloodlust and no bloodlust or battle ress and no battle is is MUCH MUCH MUCH times infinity times larger than a small boost in JoL healing for only holy paladins. They could still balance the fights with the normal JoL, but maybe holy paldins JoL would be 30% stronger, that is all.

[RaoBurning]

I enjoy having 2 paladins for the double judge benefits (Light and Wisdom). In my heroics I often judge light and melee with seal of wisdom on for the fun of it. <3 Mana. However these spells are going away so I fail to see why this is a point of contention to begin with.

[Checksmix]

Why don't you learn NOT to be a meter maid? i know many guilds (mine as one) that will boot you from the raid if you judge light. It is NO healing really done. Everyone else just heals themselves for you.

[Badpaladin]

I still don't understand the "YOU CANNOT METER PAD BAAWWWWWWWW" mentality some guilds have. I'm positive some players get too focused on meter padding, but those players are bad and won;t make the cut for progression anyways. If you allow good players a chance to rank after you've killed a boss, there is absolutely nothing wrong happening.

[Foibles]

Why bother being a troll in a thread you don't care about?
Or at least, be a smart troll.

If there is going to be 1 Judgement, wich means they replace each other, and Judgement will be part of any paladin spec's rotation, obviously it'll be replaced all the time.

The alternative could be something very simple, like the better version always getting rolled, whoever it is that "refreshes" it where it comes to unique debuffs.

Kick the idiots doing this. Problem solved.