PvP Mobility?

[DaGhostDS]

We said the same thing for over a year in burning crusade.

Edit: about damage.

and how much time until they implement something that will stay for more then 3 major patch?

[Ronark]

and how much time until they implement something that will stay for more then 3 major patch?

Holy Light, duh!

[zcks]

Hopefully blizz realizes they have created a problem very similar to what they did at the start of wrath, by giving us a crap load of burst potential but no way to get into melee they have ensured that we are gods against melee but complete cannon fodder vs anyone who can kite.

If they were to tune down the burst a bit but keep our consistent dps on par they could give us good gap closing mechanics in any of a number of ways. I have heard many suggestions over the years a few of my favorites have been

(Zealot's Rush) You instantly rush to your current target dealing 25% weapon damage and dazing them for X seconds, 30 second CD.

Change judgments to have a 30 yard range but deal X% less damage for every 5 yards the target is from us in exchange for dazing them for Y seconds for each of those 5 yards.

Change hand of freedom to be immune to dispel effects when cast on yourself & change pursuit of justice to give you a 30% run speed for the duration of hand of freedom when you cast it on yourself.

[DaGhostDS]

Holy Light, duh!

-_- i hate you

[Ronark]

-_- i hate you

Cheer up, with the 30% buff your PuGs should beable to 1 shot Marrowgar now

[Aildaris]

How about this, they change Eye for an Eye so that it is a spell we cast:

Eye for an Eye
Cost: 12% of base mana CD: 1 min.
Every slowing effect cast at you will be redirected to the caster for 15 secs.

That will make those damn frost mages eat their own medicine!

[zcks]

How about this, they change Eye for an Eye so that it is a spell we cast:

Eye for an Eye
Cost: 12% of base mana CD: 1 min.
Every slowing effect cast at you will be redirected to the caster for 15 secs.

That will make those damn frost mages eat their own medicine!

That could be nice but again if it is a magic based effect it would just backfire on us against a mage because they would just spell steal it.

What we really need is a short Cd weaker version of sprint tied onto freedom & that cannot be dispelled/spell stolen. That would give us a chance to close distances but leave us vulnerable to stuns, disorients, fear, polymorph, & knock backs.

[Aildaris]

That could be nice but again if it is a magic based effect it would just backfire on us against a mage because they would just spell steal it.

What we really need is a short Cd weaker version of sprint tied onto freedom & that cannot be dispelled/spell stolen. That would give us a chance to close distances but leave us vulnerable to stuns, disorients, fear, polymorph, & knock backs.

Well that can be countered by adding a glyph like: "Glyph of Eye for Eye" Any spell that removes Eye for an Eye will daze the caster for 5 seconds.

I think Eye for an Eye would be much better as a cast on the paladin because I believe Eye for an Eye should be a spell that makes people not want to focus on a paladin when cast. But Eye for an Eye has always been a lackluster talent that nobody takes since it doesn't proc enough and even if it did, it hardly does anything.

[Deleted]

I see Hand of Freedom as the problem, really. It allows us to reach our target but only after using Repent or running at them, relying on Pursuit of Justice. I think something has to go or be heavily nerfed. Hand of Freedom doesn't do it's job. If it were put to, say, a 1 minute cooldown and allowed you 8/10 seconds of free movement and we were then given Sprint with a 30 second cooldown in place of PoJ, I feel that would give us a far better chance, and could be more rewarding for using those cooldowns wisely.

Blizzard, whether they like it or not, simply cannot leave us without an effective way to get to our opponents, or we may as well just not be trying to at all.

[Martana]

my current plan is to chump block with rogues, warriors and enh. for distraction, and entering the fight post-engagement so that my opponents are already dealing with terrible terrible melee damage, onto which i'll add more. if they decide to focus on me, i'll weather it and they will be burglarized by aforementioned other melee. also, i plan to back myself up with a healer or two and perhaps a hunter goon squad/caster support backup ensemble. i feel this will give me the proper venue in which to best make use of my skillset.

what i will not be doing is arena, clearly. ;p competitive arena requires each class to have a swiss army knife of skills and counters to other skills to operate properly, and ret simply can't hack it outside the thoughtless mass-damage spec that is MM/ret/resto. of course, one could also argue that because of this arenas are pretty much borked anyway, but come cata that will thankfully not matter any more.

i'm sure when they actually have skills and talents more settled they'll be doing some focused pvp testing (they are redoing the way battleground queues work, i believe), so that will be the perfect place to expose whether or not ret is actually going to be sitting ducks in battleground play.

[Fichek]

wow, nerd rage.

anyways, I'm sure they will come up with a solution t ret's kiting problems, we all know they are aware of it meaning that in due time it will be fixed

Yeah, i'm sure you are right because they are making us even easier to kite even though we are so easy to kite on live.

[Heldamon]

What is this? What the hell is the priest talking about, gap closers are "to get in range" cause we're a melee class, why would a priest wanna get in range. If you have trouble getting out of range that's totally another issue, another subject for another forum. Here we talk about a gap closer for a melee class to stay in range.

[Ulfhedinn]

Holy Light, duh!

I think resistance auras are the only part of the class that has not had massive changes made to it. I didn't play much the first 6 months of WoW so I may have missed it if they have been changed. Maybe this is why I like paladin. Every year or two the class only vaguely resembles the previous version of itself.

As for kiting/mobility.... I have to wonder who these people complain about paladins are fighting. It is rather rare that I die to Ret paladin as ranged. Do they not know that paladins cannot do much outside of melee range? Maybe the paladins they fight are just the greatest paladins ever....

Maybe if we go an entire content patch without a Ret killing anyone we can get some pvp upgrades that we have needed since vanilla.

[Ronark]

I think resistance auras are the only part of the class that has not had massive changes made to it. I didn't play much the first 6 months of WoW so I may have missed it if they have been changed. Maybe this is why I like paladin. Every year or two the class only vaguely resembles the previous version of itself.

As for kiting/mobility.... I have to wonder who these people complain about paladins are fighting. It is rather rare that I die to Ret paladin as ranged. Do they not know that paladins cannot do much outside of melee range? Maybe the paladins they fight are just the greatest paladins ever....

Maybe if we go an entire content patch without a Ret killing anyone we can get some pvp upgrades that we have needed since vanilla.

Most of the time, it is when under geared (relative to level) or your opponent is vastly geared (again relative to level).

I know as a Hunter in the 60s bracket, you die a lot to relatively geared Ret paladins, especially the twinked ones.

[Deleted]

Most of the time, it is when under geared (relative to level) or your opponent is vastly geared (again relative to level).

I know as a Hunter in the 60s bracket, you die a lot to relatively geared Ret paladins, especially the twinked ones.

Then again, who draws conclusions based on twink pvp..aight, I know who does. Those people who claim that we don't need a mechanic to overcome range to our enemys and who say we shouldn't be complaining at all, since we finally got our interrupt, which we'll be never able to use because of it's 5 yard range. But that's just details. I'm not whining here, though, I'm looking forward to the changes, and I love the specc how it is, even if it has its flaws.
The thing is just that even though for example a frost mage should always be able to beat a ret paladin in a duel situation, surprisingly many actually fail at it. I know the alliance on my server sucks, and there are barely ever people out in elwynn forest to fight, but when there were a few guys out there a few days ago, I won against 3 different frost mages and a fire mage (tehe) of about equal gear all the time, which just shouldn't be the case.
I'd consider myseslf an average pvp'er, but I think the problem with our class in pvp is that most people just panic when rushed from a guy with a giant two-hander. They'd have to react quick to counter us, but would eventually kick our asses if the'd manage to do it. Unfortunately, those people who confuse their lack of skill/awareness/experience with the "op-ness" of their opponents turn to these kinds of forums to cry 3.0 tears.
I hope someday, another class can take that burden from our shoulders (is this the point where I should mention 'warlocks'?)

Sorry guys, still tired and a little ranty. Don't take everything to seriously.

[Ronark]

Then again, who draws conclusions based on twink pvp..aight, I know who does. Those people who claim that we don't need a mechanic to overcome range to our enemys and who say we shouldn't be complaining at all, since we finally got our interrupt, which we'll be never able to use because of it's 5 yard range. But that's just details. I'm not whining here, though, I'm looking forward to the changes, and I love the specc how it is, even if it has its flaws.
The thing is just that even though for example a frost mage should always be able to beat a ret paladin in a duel situation, surprisingly many actually fail at it. I know the alliance on my server sucks, and there are barely ever people out in elwynn forest to fight, but when there were a few guys out there a few days ago, I won against 3 different frost mages and a fire mage (tehe) of about equal gear all the time, which just shouldn't be the case.
I'd consider myseslf an average pvp'er, but I think the problem with our class in pvp is that most people just panic when rushed from a guy with a giant two-hander. They'd have to react quick to counter us, but would eventually kick our asses if the'd manage to do it. Unfortunately, those people who confuse their lack of skill/awareness/experience with the "op-ness" of their opponents turn to these kinds of forums to cry 3.0 tears.
I hope someday, another class can take that burden from our shoulders (is this the point where I should mention 'warlocks'?)

Sorry guys, still tired and a little ranty. Don't take everything to seriously.

You can't base an assumption on such a small sample size- You'd have to look (currently) at Arena data to determine how well a character is (and with Arenas being at level 80, you can guarantee that all classes will have all their abilities, and that the only difference from each character and team would be team composition, team synergy, and gear).

[Deleted]

You can't base an assumption on such a small sample size- You'd have to look (currently) at Arena data to determine how well a character is (and with Arenas being at level 80, you can guarantee that all classes will have all their abilities, and that the only difference from each character and team would be team composition, team synergy, and gear).

Without looking at arenajunkies.com or something, I think the percentage of rets participating in higher ratings is tiny. I think the only comps where we really work are RRP (rogue/ret/priest), WRD (arms/ret/druid)and mostly HRS (hunter/ret/shaman), and there seem to be so much more viable comps not involving ret paladins.
But those people are not complaining about rets, in fact, they KNOW about our weaknesses and strengths, they're far to occupied either playing spellcleave or complaining about it.
What I was trying to point out is, that the majority of players is not competing at high levels of arena, or participating in any form of competitive pvp, at all. But what they do instead is, spread biased feedback based on casual battleground/world pvp and what everybody and their mum tells them. It doesn't really help with our reputation, and sometimes I don't know who blizzard is listening to of both.