Cata Resto?

[Myrrar]

Well, it's pretty obvious they aren't done with us. Besides the fact they have said so, our talent tree is a mess. But instead of people thinking "hey, Blizz probably won't completely screw us so we shouldn't throw a tantrum", they do anyway.

It's the fact that they don't want us to feel like were taking useless talents, then adding in useless talents we HAVE to take is the problem so far. But they aren't stupid, they watch PTR, shit, they play PTR, and they will fix us if we are terrible.

[qtzirl]

well, it's pretty obvious they aren't done with us. Besides the fact they have said so, our talent tree is a mess. But instead of people thinking "hey, blizz probably won't completely screw us so we shouldn't throw a tantrum", they do anyway.

It's the fact that they don't want us to feel like were taking useless talents, then adding in useless talents we have to take is the problem so far. But they aren't stupid, they watch ptr, shit, they play ptr, and they will fix us if we are terrible.

listen! I wanna fricken qq alright!!!!

:d

[Lucifersam]

I'm pretty confident they'll be able to fix the mess that is the early resto tree ATM. I just really hope the stupid 50% snare for ToL cooldown is removed.

I can't imagine what they are thinking with this... unless fights in cata will not be very mobile which would be a disappointment. If they stay similar to WoTLK fights, you'd run into tons of situations where the ToL snare would get you in trouble. "Oh shit out of cooldowns for soul reaper, wait I'll pop ToL! DEFILE ON YOU... /wipe"

[Deleted]

Is it just me that would more enjoy this; having Tree of Life as it is now, in WotLK, and instead adding Ancient of Life, granting all those awesome buffs? Cause I do think my tree form is sexier than me as a tauren. Also it's funnier as a tree.

[Ravenblade]

In regards of the talent tree - it can be ignored right now or taken as temporary framework. I don't even look at those so-called suggestions containing war-tools-engineered alternative because Blizzard said once that they ignore such type of suggestions anyways. This site has been around since TBC Beta and every expansion had its share of people who felt compelled to post their corrections using it. :P

In regards of healing - I've healed with Druid and Priest since vanilla, took a stint on Paladin in TBC. I will adapt, from what I've heard it's the mix of unfinished/non-working talents, unpolished abilities and imbalanced content which makes healing rather tough in Beta. I will try it myself there at one later point of time. In general back in the time we took on the technique of pre-cast alot, knowing how much and what kind of damage came in helped but then the whole healing train wasn't as fast-paced then. But I am looking forward to a bit more challenge because that's what I am missing since they nerfed heroic Arcatraz and Shattered Halls.

In regards of ToL - right now it is not working as intended in Beta, but if it stays as emergency CD then it won't be always popped regardless of the +X% healing bonus which I expect to see dropped once the new ToL is functional unless they want to balance healing around ToL once again. I am one of those who don't think the current ToL is fun, I didn't sign up for carnival in Azeroth, so I rather want a form than a glorified costume.

[Sigtyr]

I'm pretty confident they'll be able to fix the mess that is the early resto tree ATM. I just really hope the stupid 50% snare for ToL cooldown is removed.

I can't imagine what they are thinking with this... unless fights in cata will not be very mobile which would be a disappointment. If they stay similar to WoTLK fights, you'd run into tons of situations where the ToL snare would get you in trouble. "Oh shit out of cooldowns for soul reaper, wait I'll pop ToL! DEFILE ON YOU... /wipe"

They have done some ridiculous stuff before though, messing up in beta ignoring the entire community and lying about why they changed something stupid.

The whole "we feel like catform needs a reliable stun" which is what a read some days ago is proof of that, because that's what we felt was needed 5 years ago.

[Zowi]

Blizzard is only reliable in 2 areas: Crashing servers at the worst times and Screwing up core class mechanics.

Who in their sober sane educated mind would think a 50% snare is fun and functional? Resto is simply getting shit on this expansion - and leaving us in the dark about what they intend to do about it while the game is losing steam isn't the best plan for retaining players.

[Ravenblade]

We barely use Healing Touch now outside of NS/HT macros.
We have dropped Regrowth for the most part from our Resto25 healing strategies and it's mainly a tank-centered spell.
We only use Nourish in small-scale PVE.
All three spells are getting re-arranged in regards of their importance. In addition to that we get a completely overhauled ToL which in addition - and that has been stated already - most likely won't have that snare (please read GC's statement about it).
Our Restoration tree isn't as far as the rest of the talent trees. We surely could still ask for a new spell. But what for? Besides it's not that bad that Restoration doesn't get something new for once. In opposite to Balance we had quite the favour from Blizzard but while they threw us new toys they made others very obsolete and as a result you are found yourself spamming two buttons on top while potentially having all the tools. So I regard this expansion as little clean-up.
So instead of prophesying a dark future I tend to look at what has been done so far, what work is ahead and what the outcome should be.

[axio]

Our Restoration tree isn't as far as the rest of the talent trees. We surely could still ask for a new spell. But what for? Besides it's not that bad that Restoration doesn't get something new for once. In opposite to Balance we had quite the favour from Blizzard but while they threw us new toys they made others very obsolete and as a result you are found yourself spamming two buttons on top while potentially having all the tools. So I regard this expansion as little clean-up.
So instead of prophesying a dark future I tend to look at what has been done so far, what work is ahead and what the outcome should be.

I agree that we shouldn't get a new spell. Druids have plenty of spells... they just weren't all useful in wrath.

I actually like the current talent tree for Druids, the point is for us to have to make a choice. Throughput vs Mana Regen is what it really comes down to. However, I agree that the first two tiers of Resto are still bad...

If they would just:

1. Swap Furor and Heart of the Wild
2. Make Living Seed a 2 point talent for a 50/100% chance instead of 33/66/100
3. Merge Natural Shapeshifter and Master Shapeshifter into a 2 point tier 2 talent that reduces shifting cost by 15/30% and increases ___ by 1/2% and make it require 3 points in Heart of the Wild.
4. Move Perseverance to Tier 1

Assuming we're going for throughput, we would then have 2 points to put into either Moonglow (3), Feral Swiftness (2, for cheetah in doors), Perseverance (3), Fury of Stormrage (2), or Natural Perfection (2). That sounds like plenty of choice to me.

So in order from left to right the first two tiers of resto would look like:

Tier 1:
1. Blessing of the Grove [2]
2. Heart of the Wild [3]
3. Perseverance [3]
4. Blank

Tier 2:
1. Blank
2. Master Shapeshifter combo [2, requires 3 points in Heart of the Wild]
3. Improved Rejuvenation
4. Blank

[Auroro]

I agree that we shouldn't get a new spell. Druids have plenty of spells... they just weren't all useful in wrath.

I actually like the current talent tree for Druids, the point is for us to have to make a choice. Throughput vs Mana Regen is what it really comes down to. However, I agree that the first two tiers of Resto are still bad...

If they would just:

1. Swap Furor and Heart of the Wild
2. Make Living Seed a 2 point talent for a 50/100% chance instead of 33/66/100
3. Merge Natural Shapeshifter and Master Shapeshifter into a 2 point tier 2 talent that reduces shifting cost by 15/30% and increases ___ by 1/2% and make it require 3 points in Heart of the Wild.
4. Move Perseverance to Tier 1

Assuming we're going for throughput, we would then have 2 points to put into either Moonglow (3), Feral Swiftness (2, for cheetah in doors), Perseverance (3), Fury of Stormrage (2), or Natural Perfection (2). That sounds like plenty of choice to me.

So in order from left to right the first two tiers of resto would look like:

Tier 1:
1. Blessing of the Grove [2]
2. Heart of the Wild [3]
3. Perseverance [3]
4. Blank

Tier 2:
1. Blank
2. Master Shapeshifter combo [2, requires 3 points in Heart of the Wild]
3. Improved Rejuvenation
4. Blank

The problem is that Furor is an useless talent for feral and Boomkin and we just take it to go deeper. Boomkin can get 12% more int where as resto only get 6% int.

I do agree but I would said blizzard need to think something different with Furor. Or, make a new talent this time that work with all four spec.

I like your idea about merging Natural Shapeshifter and Master Shapeshifter.

[Magoomba]

Let me say at the outset that I believe the current build is a placeholder as far as druids go. They haven't got to us yet.

I have to believe this, because the problems with these trees go much deeper than tier placement. In WotLK we are mindless rejuve bots. Ugh. In Cata Blizz has stated that we should be much more viable tank healers. To achieve that, the current build:
* makes our lifeblooms single target and 22% shorter
* makes our rejuves more expensive and 25% shorter
* makes our cheap go-to heal have a 3 second cast time

Explain to me how those changes achieve the desired result, unless the desired result is to convince resto druids to play their alts?

[Myrrar]

Actually, our go to heal will be regrowth and will be a 2 second cast time which with efflor will also be a aoe ground heal.

We will also have natures grace so when we do crit our casting speed will be increased by 15%.

Since everyone sill be having mana problems, though we wont be spamming rejuv, people probably wont be overhealing it as bad. Cata will be all about healing assignments and working together instead of who can spam the hardest.

Rejuv will be a lot shorter, but heal for a lot more and be effected by haste. So instead of being able to blanket and sit there it will actually be a very good spot heal.

LB being one target it kind of lame. But, we could either have LB underwhelming on 2-3 tanks, or really good on one tank.



Besides that I'm not going to cry yet since they have openly said we aren't finished. But if they really do want to make all healing classes equal they have a lot of work to do. We aren't terrible, but for raids were going to be far from ready.

[Magoomba]

Actually, our go to heal will be regrowth

I do like the new Regrowth. But at 5 times the mana cost of Nourish, I don't know that we can call it the go-to heal. Apart from Nature's Bounty, there are no talents boosting its crit rate, either, so it may be a long time between Efflorescence drinks.

But as you say, I think we are discussing an alternative universe which will never come to pass. Next week I expect we'll see Blizz's first serious druid efforts.

[Myrrar]

RG will really just depend. RG will def be the IT heal if it's on the melee/tank or ranged are grouped. Efflor will probably be worth the mana depending on that bosses mechanics and our crit. In Cata our crit should be pretty balanced with haste. The only thing really buffing RG over nourish right now is the hot and all the talents we have boosting hots.

Though nourish is a lot less mana I think the no hot, not procing Revit, and no efflor will hurt it. Plus the second longer cast time. So far it seems like Nourish will be the spell to use if 1) you are having mana problems, 2) on the tank or a mechanic that you already have a lot of hots up on the target.

If we still aren't having LBs constantly up on the tank we will really have to be using RG to proc revit. Looking at masteries + new skills and talents, pallys look like they will still be the kings of tank healing. Though they are trying to move away with one class being better than the other, in optimal situations it still looks like we will be mostly raid healing tank buffers.


The main thing is with our tree right now, every spell affects another spell in some way. Nourish is buffed by hots and refreshes LB. RG leaves a hot which is buffed, can proc efflor and Revit. LB procs Revit. LBs bloom has been increased. Nourish refreshes LB. If it did stay the way it is, in the end everything will probably be really situational. The way they are balances healing classes is kind of cool, but it seems like they are forgetting the fact in 25s we will be healing with 4+ other people and we can't call out every single spell we will be casting. If mana is going to be such a problem having this great healing rotation based on procs and refreshes wont really work. I think in the end mana wont end up being too much of a problem because with their class mechanics right now, healing will end up just being too complicated which is what they are trying to prevent.

From what Blizz said, this is "how they want it"
Druids don't have perfect analogues to the priest heals, but you can imagine Regrowth as the Flash Heal, Nourish as the heal, and Healing Touch as the greater heal. Lifebloom is something you'd put on a tank before healing with Nourish or Healing Touch (which might even refresh the stack). Rejuv will still be good for the reason hots are good. Wild Growth is still a group heal. Tranquility is an emergency heal, and we'll change it to act more like Diving Hymn.

[Mahon]

But as you say, I think we are discussing an alternative universe which will never come to pass. Next week I expect we'll see Blizz's first serious druid efforts.

I have been waiting for the resto change as I am sure most of us have. I understand them wanting to hammer out and fine tune pallys as early as they can since they are changing so much. I just hate being patient.

Without having played the beta and just seeing the spells and their mana costs I have been thinking of the niches for our spells.

I think we will be better as tank healers again (yay). Stack the HoTs up and nourish in between where needed.
Raid healing I am guessing would be WG with rejuv, maybe a few regrowths. Reason being Rejuv heals for a little more over the duration, and costs 10% base mana less. Regrowth would function as more of a flash heal...obviously.