Tank Spec - Latest Cataclysm Build

[patrins]

"hey guys I'm going to make a post that says pretty much nothing and brings up zero discussion points!"

What do you guys think?

CWUTIDIDTHAR?!?!

Nothing wrong with discussing stuff.

ok the points in unholy command are probably better spent in blood caked blade for threat.

then again the trees are pretty terrible atm. if you asked anyone who had any experience in dk tanking to make a spec they would all come up with nearly identical trees.

theres basically good talents and shitty talents. there is no room for choice because there are no choices to be made.

[jeppydcg]

i've never seen any reason for the reduced timer on death grip, so my thoughts are

wowtal.com/#k=aCIrGa-j.9q4.deathknight

for aoe,

wowtal.com/#k=0tlQq26.9q4.deathknight

for single target boss tanking

wowtal.com/#k=amLMyHr.9q4.deathknight

for DW tanking.

---------- Post added 2010-07-27 at 07:21 PM ----------

i agree on the lack of decisions to be made with the trees now, most everyone will make the same spec for each spec tree... some specs like survival hunters, and feral druids pretty much just dont put points in the pvp only talents but have a hard time justifying something from the other trees.

[Deleted]

DW Tanking is just a no, without Threat of Thassarian it's a no go.

Also, what part of "Threat will matter more" do people not understand? 2/3 Bladed Armor? Seriously? Come on.

Butchery. Seriously mate, Butchery......

1/3 SoB is more than enough for now. Nobody has had a real chance to do Testing to see if Death Coil will be used by us as well or not but for Rune Strike only 1/3 SoB is fine.

[Aldurok]

then again the trees are pretty terrible atm. if you asked anyone who had any experience in dk tanking to make a spec they would all come up with nearly identical trees.
theres basically good talents and shitty talents. there is no room for choice because there are no choices to be made.

Because there's so many choices to be made right now, right? Progression tanking (if anyone is still doing progression) = blood spec, a very cookie-cutter one. Non-progression you can possibly choose to use frost spec, so you can choose 2 cookie-cutter specs for non-progression.

Like I keep saying: the first 31-35 points or so will of course be pretty cookie-cutter, but the last 6-10 you'll be able to play around with a bit.

Those few points difference mean a lot more in a 31 point tree than in a 51 point tree. 6-10 points is 15%-25% of your points in Cata, as opposed to 8%-14% they are now.

Even though the differences will end up small points-wise, they will still make a noticeable difference in actual play.

[Deleted]

You don't really have a choice actually, unless you're going Double-Tank you need 3/3 Morbidity so that's 8 points gone already. There's still too much AoE to ignore Morbidity. Then there's about 33 Points to spend in Blood so yeah, not much choice.

The 31 Builds are way too Uniform, they even killed off Hybrid Builds.

[Ikkatsu]

Right,

Aoe: http://www.wowtal.com/#k=aCea4_DQ.9q4.deathknight
Single Target: http://www.wowtal.com/#k=aCHR4eP.9q4.deathknight

Simply taking the 2 points i was spending in Unholy Command and moving them to Blood Parasites.

Also, the only reason i took Unholy Command before was because i didnt think the healing from Blood Parasites would be that significant and the 15 second reduction for Death Grip was for any situation where a Ranged DPS or Healer (somehow) manages to pull agro on trash and i can just Death Grip it back to me. I also use Death Grip quite a bit in Heroic Halls of Reflection at the moment.

But yeah, the specs i linked appear to be cookie cutter with the current build.

WTB New Build so we can theory craft on the new changes!

[Deleted]

Still no.

3/3 SoB is overkill, already said that.

Threat will matter more - 3/3 Bladed Armor is default.

2/3 Virulence for 3/3 Epidemic also isn't quite right, Virulence provides more for us that Epidemic that just gives us 1 more Death Strike every 90 seconds.

For the Single Target Build - I'll assume that's for Raiding. If you're raiding 25 you can opt to drop Abom's Might or Scarlet Fever depending on your Raid Lineup since there will probably be someone else that can provide the 10% Physical Damage Debuff for free and Hunters can bring 10% AP a lot cheaper. If you also drop 1 un-necessary point in SoB you can pick up Morbidity which can come useful.

[Ikkatsu]

Still no.

3/3 SoB is overkill, already said that.

Threat will matter more - 3/3 Bladed Armor is default.

2/3 Virulence for 3/3 Epidemic also isn't quite right, Virulence provides more for us that Epidemic that just gives us 1 more Death Strike every 90 seconds.

For the Single Target Build - I'll assume that's for Raiding. If you're raiding 25 you can opt to drop Abom's Might or Scarlet Fever depending on your Raid Lineup since there will probably be someone else that can provide the 10% Physical Damage Debuff for free and Hunters can bring 10% AP a lot cheaper. If you also drop 1 un-necessary point in SoB you can pick up Morbidity which can come useful.

Why is 3/3 SoB overkill?

With the changes to the rune system causing us to only have 3 runes available every 10 seconds instead of 6 runes, there is going to be a lot of dead space for using Death Coil (i didnt include Rune Strike because that should be spammed whenever its available).

If you say this due to the current state of beta and that we are already generating enough Runic Power (im not in beta so i wouldnt know), then maybe they plan on changing it so SoB is a must have?

[bahumut5]

Beta tester here, hopefully I can clear some stuff up:
1. Blood worms do attack from behind.
2. Blood worms at level 80 have 11k ish health.
3. They gain a stacking buff as they attack leaching health from the enemy.
4. Said buff increases their healing percentage upon burst by a percentage.
5. They look badass

Thanks for this info, but that still didn't answer my question regarding the amount they usually heal

[bahumut5]

Bahmut5 - http://pwnwear.com/forum/blood-paras...5.html?uid=130

Thanks, but thats from a guy named "Zao".
I don't listen to people named "Zao"... They tend to steal my Beta's and stuff...

Anyway: Yeah, seems useful now really :/
Even if it doesn't heal YOU for that much, it does heal the Melee around you, causing the Healers to be more focused on you. Seems like a win/win situation to me :P

[Deleted]

So far there's no concrete testing but it doesn't look like we'll be using Death Coil. With just Rune Strike 2/3 SoB means continuous 60+ RP so 1/3 cuts it fine. We've only been able to test normal mode instances but if Raid Bosses hit faster and not harder the uptime on Rune Strike should be higher than current Beta, even though we'll only have around 30% Avoidance.

We also generate more RP per Ability than on Live, 1 Rune Abilities 15 and 2 Rune Abilities 25 not counting Presence buffs and Talents.

Bahmut5 - http://pwnwear.com/forum/blood-paras...5.html?uid=130

[Ikkatsu]

So far there's no concrete testing but it doesn't look like we'll be using Death Coil. With just Rune Strike 2/3 SoB means continuous 60+ RP so 1/3 cuts it fine. We've only been able to test normal mode instances but if Raid Bosses hit faster and not harder the uptime on Rune Strike should be higher than current Beta, even though we'll only have around 30% Avoidance.

We also generate more RP per Ability than on Live, 1 Rune Abilities 15 and 2 Rune Abilities 25 not counting Presence buffs and Talents.

Bahmut5 - http://pwnwear.com/forum/blood-paras...5.html?uid=130

Is Rune Strike no longer an "On Next Melee" attack?

From what you're saying, that must be the case and therefore activate GCD to make us not use Death Coil.

[Melonberry]

At one rune, will death and decay be worth using single target?

[Deleted]

Yes Rune Strike is a normal attack that requires 20 RP and one Dodge/Parry to activate, it also takes up one GCD and is our highest priority after Diseases.

Death and Decay costs 1 Unholy meaning we won't be able to use a Death Strike so no Healing from DS, no Life Shield assuming it'll get re-implemented and no Death Runes, so no, not useful on Single-Target. The Damage Modifier has also been halved so its way weaker than what you're used to, both Damage and Threat-wise.

[Aldurok]

So AoE is still that prevalent? Like, more than 3 mobs attacking at once so HS can't hit 'em?

That really sucks. Was really looking forward to losing the aoe fest. Could still happen I guess, but =(

[Foibles]

So AoE is still that prevalent? Like, more than 3 mobs attacking at once so HS can't hit 'em?

That really sucks. Was really looking forward to losing the aoe fest. Could still happen I guess, but =(

Only the starter dungeons are available so far. We will have to wait till heroics and the 84-85 reg dungeons are available to see if aoe is gone.

[Deleted]

Well Throne of Tides has a Gauntlet that really needs strong AoE so it won't be gone 100% even if we do CC more in Heroics (which we will) than in Normal 5 Player Dungeons.

[Aldurok]

Well, if AoE is still going to be a significant part of tanking, then I hope they do give BB a high threat modifier. Maybe even from a glyph or something, like using BB on a target afflicted with Scarlet Fever (by the DK) causes triple threat (just an example).

This would allow you to drop morbidity (hopefully), giving you more points to pick up the BB talents in blood. Or maybe even get you the choice (/gasp!) of using either BB or DnD as your AOE threat ability.

On another topic: I did see you (Alcotraz) saying that Abom's might could be worth dropping if someone else in the raid brings the buff. But wouldn't the % strength modifier be worth picking up?

It's not an incredible bonus, but it does scale and it doesn't seem to be insignificant. At least with Cata levels of strength (since my understanding is that they're increasing base stats on gear significantly).

[Foibles]

Well, if AoE is still going to be a significant part of tanking, then I hope they do give BB a high threat modifier. Maybe even from a glyph or something, like using BB on a target afflicted with Scarlet Fever (by the DK) causes triple threat (just an example).

On another topic: I did see you (Alcotraz) saying that Abom's might could be worth dropping if someone else in the raid brings the buff. But wouldn't the % strength modifier be worth picking up?

It's not an incredible bonus, but it does scale and it doesn't seem to be insignificant. At least with Cata levels of strength (since my understanding is that they're increasing base stats on gear significantly).

It will probably end up like getting hit/exp capped. If you need threat (or the buff) get Aboms. Otherwise get something else.
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=Y-ubOf3U.9q4.deathknight
for example

[Zao]

2% Strength won't be that great, same as it is now. And give the fact that BoM now also counts as 10% Strength modifier, chances that someone else brings the buff at least in a 25 man are very high.

Those two points could then be used in other talents like BCB, which provides more TPS, or at least one point in Blood Parasites, which provides a nifty healing effect.