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  1. #201
    As a dps I do agree we need to tone it down to match the tanks threat. As a mage if I see on the first pull that my blizzard is sending out an invitation for a slaughter I start single target dps.

    General rule of thumb
    Tank dies ->Healer's fault
    Healer dies - Tanks fault
    Dps Dies -> their own damme fault.

    Try giving advice but at the end of it you want to get those 2 badged asap. Roll with the situation since its almost 15-20 mins wait time as a dps.

  2. #202
    I agree that DPS should always match their threat to the tank, as a DPS myself I always try to. It's not even that difficult, a majority of tanks in randoms are now ICC geared, all it takes is little precautions. IE: Attacking the same target as the tank, AoE'ing once the tank has established threat on all mobs. A good, smart DPS should never be over aggroeing.
    As for OP, suck it up man, because it's not going to get better.

  3. #203
    I'll just recite my signature and win the thread.

    \o/

  4. #204
    Dreadlord
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    tbh i find tanking much easier than dps, u dont get tunnelvision and u get a sense of awareness in what u do. but man when i switch to fury my mind goes blank n i spam buttons like hell. maybe its that fury is boring but i find it harder than tanking. but i agree with op that when someone gets threat its easy to get em back no matter what there gear
    18 - 9 - 2012 Find the significance in this date, and you will also find the revitalization of the best game ever.

  5. #205
    A good dps is not a dps that only can mash his buttons in the right order as much as he/she can to get high dps output. A good dps understands that he /she is a member of a team and manages his aggro and helps the team out with cc, ToT etc. Awareness is key and OP try tanking before calling people bad tanks to understand how it works.

  6. #206
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earenbane View Post
    tbh i find tanking much easier than dps, u dont get tunnelvision and u get a sense of awareness in what u do. but man when i switch to fury my mind goes blank n i spam buttons like hell. maybe its that fury is boring but i find it harder than tanking. but i agree with op that when someone gets threat its easy to get em back no matter what there gear
    Part of a tank's job is to always remain aware of what's happening, it seems like a natural thing to me, you are the protector of the group, you watch out for them and take a mob away from them if it starts running towards them and shit like that. DPS don't have to worry about that too much, unless they have a specific job outside dpsing.
    Either way I'm guessing you're a prot warriors since you mentioned fury, I've found the exact same thing myself, but that could be because I'm nowhere near as experienced with fury as I am with prot - but still, it is far far more boring, the huge whirlwinds and shit don't make it any fun at all when it's just such an unstimulating class/spec to play, especially compared with prot warrior tanking, which although now is second nature to me, is still fun for me.
    "The truth, my goal."

  7. #207
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulf View Post
    Google unlimited ignore list, does this need to repeated a 1000 times?
    Yeah, too bad the ignore extenders only filter out chat messages from ignored people, you will still get grouped with them by the LFD.
    Nice failure there.

    Retired raider coming back for WoD.
    WoD BETA CLUB

  8. #208
    I really think Cataclysm is going to take care of this. The ppl that 'learned to play' while overgearing hc's by a mile, and therefore never had to move out of a fire or hide behind an iceblock, will have their asses handed to them kicked to pulp by the new hc's we will be running at the start of Cataclysm. Ppl today still complain how hc's are hard while running around with 5k-ish gearscore. We did that stuff in greens and blues and prenerfs, close to 2 years ago (which sucks btw Blizz, gief Cata pl0x), and wiped many times to learn mechanics. I at least hope this will be the case, because being flamed for doing your job as healer but not being able to keep everybody alive because of their stupidity is just insane.

    Oh btw my dps has a full ignore list, and I now have 1,5 hours waiting time in queues for randoms. The good news is, whenever I find a group, it's only a 10 min run

  9. #209
    Lets see if I have this straight.

    Tank who keeps aggro off damage dealers who are pulling 3k dps = bad player.
    Damage dealers who pull 3k dps in a heroic that requires less than that to complete = bad players.
    Healer who keeps the group alive despite one of the DPS pulling aggro sometimes = bad player.
    A damage dealer who continues to pull aggro in a random heroic despite finding out early on that he will need to watch his threat or else he'll pull aggro = good player.

    Is this what the OP is suggesting?

  10. #210
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altam View Post
    I really think Cataclysm is going to take care of this.
    Hahahahahhhaaahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahaha...erm...no, it won't.

    Don't believe me? Book mark your post and come back in 5 months to watch the same bloody QQ about the same stuff that ppl are QQing about now.

    See, the concept seems so hard to grasp. PuGs are like sex with strangers in a dark alley....or a box of choclate if you are a minor and/or offended by my sexual metaphor. You never know what you will get.

    When you PuG, you basically sign up to the idea that anything can and will happen and the quality of players varies greatly. That is the LFG / PuG system for you.

    If you do not like this one bit, form your groups, be in a guild, recruit and hand select the people you want to play with.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  11. #211
    I have a fairly good knowledge of most classes in the game so if I see said situation in the op I try to explain to te person what they can do better. Not in an arrogant way but a "dude you really should try doing this instead." You would be suprised how many pugs will take advice. I don't run into the tank issue myself anymore because I made my druid one but helping explain the game to dps classes and healers if they are doing something completely wrong never hurts. If they get an attitude with you for it because they think they know everything then just deal with it or leave, after all, if you are so good and have so many good friends that play why are you using the LFG anyways??

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Moralio View Post
    No excuses OP. You are dps, your no1 priority is to manage your threat and adjust it to the tank. If you cant do it then you are a bad player regardless of your dps.
    that comment wud work.....if your talking about a tank who knows how to tank and just has poor gear. i think most of the comments in this post are referring to idiots/noobs who dont actualy know how to play

    a tank that isnt using all of his key abilities...you can hardly blame a DPS for over agroing.

    when i do see a tank that clearly isnt playing properly, i will indeed hold off my DPS as to stop agroing...that does NOT mean that i should have to hold my DPS off, that means the muppet who is tanking needs to l2p.

    even despite gear, i have seen tanks with 3.5-4k GS, holding agro against myself while im pulling 6-8k dps - 5.9kgs (ofcourse i have to manage my own threat quite well and the tank himself had to be good)

    imo any tank who is speced and geared correctly with 4k+ GS has absolutly no excuse atall for holding agro against me, apart from learning to play. any tank with 5kgs+ (correct spec and gear) and i shud feel free to nuke the hell out of anything, single target, with a very low demand of soulshatter (-50% threat).

    there are alot of tanks that just simply dont know what there highest threat abilities are, or they dont time there cooldowns properly, and thus they dont play to the best of there ability. i think warriors make a good example, so many warriors out there seem to open up with sunder armour/devastate for debuff stacks....which although this creates agro yes, its a slow build up of agro, unlike shield slam which is a large high amount of threat to put u ahead of the dps as they pile out there first hits.

    tanking itself has been nerfed to the extent that you dont realy have to do NAAFFFF ALLL and you still hold agro.

    i have an alt prot warrior, which altho its not hard, people would agree that they are a more demanding tank class, especialy with aoe pulls, and to be honist no matter how retarded/incomptetant the dps are at playing wow/there class, or how much they can nuke the wrong target, i never have issues holding threat from them. in boss fights that require 2 tanks i frequently see myself doing a great deal more threat than the other tank despite having equal gear.

    if anything i find healers cause my more pain while im tanking. healing needlessly *sigh*

    lets say im pulling the first bit of trash in utgarde keep, you know that big mass of trash that you just have to pull in 1 big group now ofcourse im a warrior and i dont have a large AoE arsenal. i need to save my thunderclap for the right moment. SO WHY OH FUCKING WHY DO YOU HEAL ME WHEN IM ON 90% HEALTH? its not exactly hard to recover from but its a pain in the arse. in those situations, providing i know that i will survive with my cooldowns, ill leave the healer for dead, and laugh watching the moron run back. but yea, i tend to find healers cause me bigger problems than DPS. DPS tend to just pull off the odd target here and there which just requires a taunt and shield slam/revenge to get back(in the event that even happens )

    so to sum up....if a tank is geared and speced correctly with 4k+ gs, that player has absolutly no excuse.

    P.S. i like tanking because it means i can semi afk through most of my pulls
    Last edited by greengrower; 2010-08-09 at 02:07 PM.

  13. #213
    These are the reasons I play Rogue. I can carry a bad tank to maintaining aggro by using tricks.

    It sucks but its just the community. I recently leveled a shaman alt and would queue as healer for lfg (as elemental) and would always heal just fine while being 40-50% of the dps via spamming fire nova every 3 sec. You just need to get used to carrying bads and some classes just cant do much other than slow down dps and painfully putt through the instances. Had a few noob tanks rage quit runs cuz I was tanking more than them but I continued to pull and "fire nova/heal alternating spam" tank/heal/dps the run myself. Unfortunately once I hit BC content doing all 3 rolls didn't work as well so I had to heal a bit more and dps a bit less so not to pull aggro.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthets View Post
    So I needed to vent and figured I'd turn it into something slightly more than omgomgwthwtfnoobs.

    Right, I entered FoS heroic today, another daily nothing new, druid who is the healer spots me having aggro and starts raging. I simply tell him there is nothing I can do about it, I use my stun on the one I get aggro from, use my salvation and divine shield every cd. I start fights with concecration then judgement (of command at the time later righteousness because the tank really can't keep aggro) so as you can see I start with the least possible threat output (and dps but I linger around 6.5-7k so) I then notice the rogue doesnt use tricks of the trade on our tank and that the tank doesnt use pestilence and I get a bit buthurt. Because I've been listening to this druid going on about how much a noob I am because I get aggro. So I said to the druid:

    If you're going to place blame why not do it on the death knight who doesn't use any aoe threat appart from death and decay? Or the rogue who can't be bothered to use tricks of the trade even when the tank has threat problems?

    I then get called a jerk, a noob and get kicked, all this while the rogue does 3100 and the mage 2900.
    Now I've experience things like this SO many times why do people forsake all logic? I mean why is it so natural to blame a dps for getting aggro? When 90% of the time it's the tanks fault and he can/could easily fight it with a well placed taunt if it happens? both my paladin, my druid and my warrior are tanks, many people claim it's OH-SO-HARD to tank and that it's always the dps' fault if they get aggro.

    So my question has come to this, why do the community accept baddies so much? Is it because it can indentify itself with them or
    what? I really don't get it.

    pah venting..
    Well my friend we all know that any form of logic, reason, or intelligence went bye bye with the coming of wrath. Hopefully it will return with cataclysm. The massive nerfs to tanking (no more /dance in the pool of concecration), the return of CC, the competition for gear, return of effort.

    When the game like all things is made too simple then the quality of the player populous follows the tread. Lower quality game for lower quality players (trolls, flamers, just plain out pricks)

  15. #215
    yesterday i saw a paladin que up for a heroic as a tank/healer and dps so he would get an instant que lol no one kicked him and we had to do the whole dungeon w/o a healer lawl, i think my judgment of light and divine storm did the majority of the healing.

  16. #216
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    Part of a tank's job is to always remain aware of what's happening, it seems like a natural thing to me, you are the protector of the group, you watch out for them and take a mob away from them if it starts running towards them and shit like that. DPS don't have to worry about that too much, unless they have a specific job outside dpsing.
    Either way I'm guessing you're a prot warriors since you mentioned fury, I've found the exact same thing myself, but that could be because I'm nowhere near as experienced with fury as I am with prot - but still, it is far far more boring, the huge whirlwinds and shit don't make it any fun at all when it's just such an unstimulating class/spec to play, especially compared with prot warrior tanking, which although now is second nature to me, is still fun for me.
    yeah i play prot warr, in regards to fury ive played lvl 10s that are more fun. but out of all the tanks for me the most fun is dk and prot warr.
    in regards to op, learn not to overaggro in any situation, because dead dps is not dps.

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-10 at 03:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryinmilkme View Post
    I have a fairly good knowledge of most classes in the game so if I see said situation in the op I try to explain to te person what they can do better. Not in an arrogant way but a "dude you really should try doing this instead." You would be suprised how many pugs will take advice.
    you wouldnt be surpised at how many dont!
    18 - 9 - 2012 Find the significance in this date, and you will also find the revitalization of the best game ever.

  17. #217
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Pretty much all I see here is 11 pages of people pointing the finger at everyone and everything else but themselves. A problem with no solutions still is a problem, and nobody here's offering any real solutions.

    Offer advice constructively. And you know what? If they nerdrage the first time...DROP IT. They're beyond help. Nobody can help the help-less, no matter how you try to do it. Put them on ignore and that's the end of it. Not every person, however, is like that. I give advice to several people who are very appreciative of it. I also have people who seek me out and ask me for advice. Hell, I have people ask me for advice on classes that I don't even know anything about. In which case I simply try to direct them someplace helpful, or to another person.

    I saw a person early on in this thread who said "because I grouped with bads now me and my friends treat everyone like shit and piss on the community". That's a solution to you peo0ple? To make a bad community worse is your big problem-solver. Yeah, that makes total sense. I am glad people in work environments don't use your logic. "This customer I had yesterday was rude to me, so I'm going to be rude to every customer after them". That's some fail ass backwards thinking process that's even, to me, more incomprehensible than people intentionally (in some variation) playing a video game in a subpar manner.

    The problem is never everyone else. The problem is always, always, ALWAYS you first. If someone nerdrages, that's probably because you goaded them into it. So simply drop it. Simple and easy solution. If they keep talking after you have silenced yourself, put them on ignore. Now the problem is eliminated.

    However, given how I've seen most people act in this game, I highly HIGHLY doubt that many of the people saying "I give constructive criticism and people get pissy about it" are giving what is actual constructive criticism in the first place.

    Constructive: "I'm not trying to tell you how to play, but I think you would generate more threat if you also use (insert ability here) in your tanking rotation."

    NOT constructive (and probably what most of you deem as constructive): "Dude, just use (same ability here), man. They give it to you for a reason, you know."

    See the difference? One is polite (I know, impossible for so many of you), while the other comes off as more of a demand. Nobody wants to play a video game and be bossed around.

    I don't really have a problem with good players, or bad players, or in between players. What I have a problem with is rude players, douchebag players, and players who fail to grasp the concept that behind every moving pixel is an actual human being, and just because you don't know them is no reason to treat them like dirt. Do unto others. If others can't do the same, leave them alone.

    All your problems in this game have the easiest of solutions. And they're usually caused by you in the first place. The sooner you see that, the sooner they're all solved.

  18. #218
    Very well said Fenix, couldn't agree more.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    All your problems in this game have the easiest of solutions. And they're usually caused by you in the first place. The sooner you see that, the sooner they're all solved.
    thank you very much.
    The Fogelmensch!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    All your problems in this game have the easiest of solutions. And they're usually caused by you in the first place. The sooner you see that, the sooner they're all solved.
    Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.
    Kosh

  20. #220
    While I agree with fenix, I think
    Constructive: "I'm not trying to tell you how to play, but I think you would generate more threat if you also use (insert ability here) in your tanking rotation.
    is too passive. I would usually say "hey man I was bored and I read that (insert ability here) would give you more threat in your rotation."
    Of course, most people knew that I knew what I was talking about when I was trying to suggest things to them though...

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