How do you feel about what Rogues have so far.

[shadstep]

back on topic:

I hope to see blizz fulfill their promises of making sub raid viable without another travesty like HaT

a PvP viable combat tree would also be nice, but thats probably asking too much

[Creed]

Personally, I feel the Sub tree has too many PvP talents that are really appealing. And is a bit bloated.

On that same note, a little less with the current state of Ardent Defender, but the Wrath and Original Beta version...

It's a better Cheat Death, and costs one point. off the Global, even though it is an activated ability now. I believe, given the dependancy on Resilience anyway, that Cheat Death should be a single point talent at least.

[Relicra]

Assassination needs it talent points moved around, combat seems alright for pve but it looks like it will be harder to spec for pvp because of the volume of good talents. Sub just looks like a mash of current talents with a few bleed talents throne in that weren't really thought over to make it seem more complete. So atm sub looks like it needs the biggest helping hand, and i sure hope that it receives it because it is by far the most fun spec to play.

[Voix]

@mistersoup, i reckons they should lower the level requirement on envenom from 62 to the area about when you are able to start improving i's damage with talents.

The whole point they keep going on about in cata is "make talent choices interesting/fun/useful" how often do you think to yourself "if only i had a AOE damage reduction" i've played WoW since launch, i can only think of 1 time in MC i thought that lol, the talent is boring and doubley crappy. I never required feint, my tank was good? This was before pre-nerf XT too (the hp nerfs anyways.. way before the damage nerfs ).

It got a lot of damage increase from the looks of it through talents, it and garrote will just do so much damage. Here is some food for thought, what is the new hemo glyph will it further its DoT damage increasing potential?

@shadstep are the changes to HaT new or is it just a tooltip update? Currently it says group only, but on the cata talent calculators it says raid, i don't currently raid currently so i can't check it out.

[JackBauerLOL]

I'm still holding out hope they change Vendetta but I've seen no beta forum posts about it so maybe I'm the only one disappointed with Hunger for blood on a cooldown with hunter's mark gimmick. I wanted a skill like Killing Spree. A damage boost on a short cooldown.

Maybe a strong dagger attack on a 10-15 second cooldown with positional requirement. 250% weapon damage. 2 CP. 150% damage bonus (instead of 100%) on critical strike or some PvP orientated effect.

Also praying that Sub is actually viable and not overhauled during Beta then left in a state that excludes it from every aspect of the game because it sucks.

[Xleetskeetx]

Ok think of it this way Less ABLITIES but more damage+More ABLITIES but less damage=More ablities+More damage

Let abilities = x
Let damage = y

(-x + y) + (x - y)= x + y

0 = x + y

x = -y
y = -x

(y + y) + (-y - y) = -y + y

2y -2y = 0

0 = 0

(-x - x)+ ( x + x) = x - x

-2x + 2x = 0

0 = 0

What he said made no sense to me. But now, I see it is true, regardless of whether I understand it.

[hopfrog]

I'm still holding out hope they change Vendetta but I've seen no beta forum posts about it so maybe I'm the only one disappointed with Hunger for blood on a cooldown with hunter's mark gimmick. I wanted a skill like Killing Spree. A damage boost on a short cooldown.

Maybe a strong dagger attack on a 10-15 second cooldown with positional requirement. 250% weapon damage. 2 CP. 150% damage bonus (instead of 100%) on critical strike or some PvP orientated effect.

Also praying that Sub is actually viable and not overhauled during Beta then left in a state that excludes it from every aspect of the game because it sucks.

It would be nice if they gave us something different than HfB on a CD, also it would be nice if they gave us something new to regen energy instead of rupture (add something to the rotation but have it focus on poison/daggers)

A new 31 point ability would be nice, a thought i had was something that would be on a cd require the attacker to be behind the target and would be called Spinal Tap: Allows the rogues poisons to enter the targets system more rapidly/effectively, allowing DP to stack to X instead of 5.

[Annoying]

What he said made no sense to me. But now, I see it is true, regardless of whether I understand it.

Try this:
Less abilities, more damage over a 10s period:
5 abilities @ 1000 damage a piece = 5000 damage/10s or 500dps
More abilities, less damage:
10 abilities @ 500 damage a piece = 5000 damage/10s or 500dps
Less abilities+More abilities, more damage+less damage:
10 abilities @ 500 damage + 5 abilities @ 1000 damage over 20s = (5000+5000)/20s, or 500dps.
Time is an important factor. Adding the two together still averages out if they're equal in the first place.
Thus: Less ABLITIES but more damage+More ABLITIES but less damage=Average abilities+average damage.

[Powerogue]

combat seems to be OK, i like the balance of the tree but it'll be annoying trying to maximize dps with the inconsistency of combo points (trying to get exactly 4 combo points before using revealing strike even though sinister strike can proc for 2 combo points)

ah well, my rotation needed some complexity.

[escobar]

If sub raiding makes a return i will be elated or pvp for that matter

[jobdone]

I just like how Ambush does not require daggers anymore.

[Powerogue]

combat seems OK for now, we'll have to actually play cataclysm to see if their dps is comparable.

[JackBauerLOL]

I really don't like how Blizzard is specifically forbidding themselves the ability to make Subtlety PvE viable vs. Assassination and Combat.

Their reason why?

"It's too much fun. Everyone will want to be Subtlety."

Sooo... Blizzard doesn't want us to enjoy our class even more than we already do.

They actually said this?

[sabrelime]

I think that is a misinterpretation of there stance on buffing and nerfing different aspects of rogues so rogues feel forced to switch to one spec.

I implore you to go spec sub now and tell me if it is fun in pve, just forget about what dps your actually doing atm and just TRY to do the rotation completely and totally correctly. You will find quickly that playing sub very well is an effort in frustration, then an enjoyable goal.

[fex]

There's still a problem with rogues; they exist. Take rogue out completely and we will all be happy .

/troll

Oh hey, look, I'm in your signature. I feel so special. <3

[saintt]

I find my rogue to be boring right now so i hope they make them more exciting. I play on a pvp server but mostly pve and I feel like our rotation is one of the dullest as its more of keep track of stuff rather than an actual rotation.

[Gentile911]

I just think all of the trees need to widen a little bit.

[placeholdername]

So much fail in one sentence? Rogues were OP in Vanilla and TBC, they are shit now, if you disagree, you suck at PvP. Want facts and proof? here you go: http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player/


Rogues don't have OP damage, their damage is shit compared to any other class.


Rogues survivability won't be fixed by Combat Readiness, if anything, we need more defense buffs to compensate for CS/KS nerf.



1. You are a troll, who is flame baiting.

or

2. You are clueless when it comes to rogues, extreamly bad at PvP and you try to sound cool desperately while failing. (qoute 300? oh lord...)

That is the impression you made.

God I was almost rooting for you when you said we're not OP.

Then I saw you BS those responses about our need for more survivability and dps. Look who's calling who a troll. Rogues are quite fine in terms of pve, our damage output is comparable to any other pure dpser, but we're not skyrocketing ahead of anybody.

I almost never pvp with my rogue, so I couldn't give you an opinion on that.

---------- Post added 2010-08-10 at 03:07 AM ----------

They actually said this?

No, it was a horrible mutilation of their statement that subtlety's sustained dps cannot be higher than combat or assasination because of subtlety's extremely potent cooldowns like preparation, shadowstep, premeditation.