Paladin Tank Help Please

[Lumidar]

Yeah i wanna comment on your enchants, You are using threat to gloves, dodge to shoulders?Both Your chest and cloak can both be replaced by better from frost badges too?Wanna carry on?
And Dodge gems are good amirite?

hmm thanks for pointing that out. i thought i had pvp enchant on shoulders.

actually i had changed the gloves and the chest a long time ago but i got hacked last weekend. seems they restored it with the old enchants.

and Chest and cloak can be Better from badges? did you not notice that my chest and cloak are Heroic gear? they offer way better stats and bonuses than the badges ones.

[Joels]

If you're serious on getting some advice on gearing and such, then look at this guy

Top raiding spec, good glyphs, good gemming, good enchants, good gear, etc.

Although I'm worried you may be trying to troll here, considering that any tank worth a grain of salt can out-threat someone who's in around ToC 10/25 gear, unless they have worse gear, or that ToC 10/25 gear is completely designed for threat, and even then, I find it unlikely.

In any case, like the others said, let's see your prot gear before anything.

How does your armory show you with so much health, I have much better gear in my prot set and am barley pushing 50k, whats your secret?

OT: Your gear isnt bad, use all epic gems. Youre spec is kind of dumb, i suggest using the guys spec who is in my quote, as it is really good

[robmcg]

How does your armory show you with so much health, I have much better gear in my prot set and am barley pushing 50k, whats your secret?

Yeah my HP is only 33774 without out buffs, The armory you might have seen would be a 25 man raid buff maybe? Idk but im not even close to 50k lol unless im in ICC

[Palaranger]

I noticed a few things someone else said, and while the person gave pretty good advice, he was wrong about a few things:

- Blade ward is trash. While there aren't a whole lot of good tanking enchants out there, keep 25hit/crit if you're under hit cap. You could choose another enchant if you feel your threat doesn't suffer from losing the hit, but Blade Ward should NOT be one of them. Enchants such as mongoose, accuracy, agility (not sure of the exact number it provides), and possibly blood draining (especially if you're progression tanking) are all acceptable. These all provide more uptime, threat, healing, or avoidance than Blade ward.

- Use a shifting dreadstone (agi/stam) to activate your meta. Agility provides both armor (EH), dodge, and a little bit of melee crit, and in ICC EH is king. Don't EVER use a pure red gem to activate your meta.

- Use the pvp shoulder enchanter (stam/resil). It provides more hp than any other enchant.

Other things that have been said:

- Respec and Reglyph. Get Crusader and Pursuit of Justice. A movement increase is rather invaluable while tanking. (cookie cutter build: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZV0tA...ufdxfMzbc:pZmz)

- Put the 18 stam armor kits on your gloves and shield. Get the Stam/Agi armor kit for your legs.

- Replace both of your trinkets. Glyph (triumph badges), Corroded Skeleton Key, Black Heart, Scarab (ToC 25), and even Essence of Gossamer from heroic AN would all be better trinkets than your current.

- Replace both your chest and bracer enchants with +275 health and +40 stam. Expertise is a good stat for a tank, but there's no point in gemming or enchanting for it when you have over 26. There's never a reason to take 15 expertise over 40 stam. Be prepared to replace your Glyph of Hammer of Righteousness with Glyph of Seal of Vengeance when you start getting more upgrades.


Edit: A note on gemming.. Use the shifting dreadstone in a slot that provides the largest hp bonus (most likely your helm). If you feel the need to gem for hit, expertise, or avoidance (please don't), always go for +9 stam bonuses or higher.

[Cardolan]

and Chest and cloak can be Better from badges? did you not notice that my chest and cloak are Heroic gear? they offer way better stats and bonuses than the badges ones.

You seem to massively undervalue bonus armor on gear. General rule of thumb says that 10 armor is worth 1 stamina against physical damage.

The Emblem of Frost cloak gives you an extra 560 armor (equivalent to an extra 56 stamina), 8 strength, and 2 dodge rating in exchange for 3 defense rating and 48 parry rating.

The Emblem of Frost chest gives you an extra 1061 armor (equivalent to an extra 106 stamina) and 82 expertise in exchange for 32 stamina, 16 strength, 14 defense, 122 dodge rating, and 69 hit.

[robmcg]

Ok well the big decision i have atm is getting the new 245 trinket from the vendor after getting some new gear today and yesterday If i remove the trinket i have only 530 defense. I am going to re glyph and re talent later tonight, Any suggestions on the trinket? a replacement that still provides defense

[Lumidar]

don't get your defense stat from trinkets...
seems your cloak is not enchanted, i'd enchant that with defense if you're lacking it.

---------- Post added 2010-07-26 at 02:39 AM ----------

How does your armory show you with so much health, I have much better gear in my prot set and am barley pushing 50k, whats your secret?

I've been comparing his gear to mine since he seems to have more HP but i have heroic 277 gear...
and by comparing i have 126 more Stam from gear than he does yet he has more HP?

i compared professions and enchants and everything and it's all the same. I still have 126 more stam from Gear yet he has more HP on Armory.

it has to be an Armory error... makes no sense.

Edit: Joels armory is showing you at 66.9k HP lol. there's definitely something wrong. it seems to be counting buffs yet im sure they got rid of buffs on armory.

[robmcg]

ok so I have finally re glyphed and talented up. The couple things I didn't understand in this cookie cute are, SoC and Vindiction. Soc from my understanding does better as AoE tank. So for ICC besides trash mobs it doesn't make a lot of sense to have + SoV is spread with my glyph hammer of the righteous and using a little tab love. And vindiction makes 0 sense if you all ready have 1-2 ret palis in the group as it doesn't stack, and is also mostly a pvp talent. Sense from what I read it takes almost no effect on a boss. And I decided to keep Hammer Glyph as I still run a lot of randoms and do AoE tank other things.. It only makes sense to help with agro. Any Other Sugestions Guys? BTW I am enchanting my cloak as I wont have enough Defense when i remove my trinket.

---------- Post added 2010-07-26 at 02:39 PM ----------

BTW i didn't glyph for expertise because I just did 1mill damage on the target dummy before doing all this and decided it wasn't worth my minimal parries/block and so forth

[underdogba]

If you're serious on getting some advice on gearing and such, then look at this guy

Top raiding spec, good glyphs, good gemming, good enchants, good gear, etc.

This is a good armory, but not necessarily an exemplary one for demonstrating the optimal setup. The player in question is missing a number of possible bonus armor items.

[Migey]

Howdy friend :P Im from Kul Tiras too! /wave

Anyways. Back to your tank. In your armory you are wearing holy gear so i cant give you any advice on your gear - i suggest stamina stacking, due to scaling in ICC. Dont go for defense - honestly, if your tanking ICC, then you shouldn't need to worry about defense. Ignore socket bonus on all but head (where a meta+multicolor is better then a meta+30stam, because if it fits the socket, you lose only 4 stamina (due to scaling) and you gain avoidance. Go for stamina trinkets - i use Heart of Iron from ignis25 (very nice, alot of stamina + a nice avoidance cooldown) and Corroded Skeleton Key (awful effect, like its really going to make a difference, but it has some very, very nice stamina - atm in ICC and with talents you can get roughly 300 stamina from that one trinket along)

As for glyphs, i use Glyph of Salvation (very nice. If your far enough ahead of threat, you can use it as a defensive cooldown without having to worry. Failing that, you can use it to soak one big bang and then cancel it - or use it as a second Hand of Sacrifice, with slightly less mitigation and no cost to yourself. Talking of which, i am constantly amazed by how few pallytanks know of Hand of Sacrifice and the pure awesomeness contained within.)

After that, Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous is nice for trash, but you can use it for something else if you wish - alot of people seem to disregard trash. Then go for glyph of Divine Plea - great glyph, you have DP up almost all the time in a boss fight so thats roughly 3% flat mitigation right there - nothing to complain about.

Your spec isnt bad - take out those points in Conviction and Crusade - they are useless. I assume you put them there for threat, but you will get better threat from putting them in Seals of the Pure in the holy tree. I personally disregard threat - i rely on an MD and avenging wrath for burst threat at the start, and go for Divinity and Imp Hammer of Justice. Imp Hammer of Justice is very nice - for trash its great, and for some bosses it can be nice for an interrupt in a pinch if one of the meele has screwed up or is on cooldown, etc. On Saurfang its wonderful - the cooldown is exactly the length of time it takes for blood beasts to spawn - i always stun one of the beasts, leaving the dps with only 4 to handle for 6 seconds. It is nice n some other bosses too.

Also, Glyph of Judgement is good for threat, but i personally dont have problems with that - so i suggest you change it.

Also, are you using the standard 6/9 rotation?

Oh - and its your call, but i prefer to have 2/2 in Spiritual attunement - but if your not having any problems with mana, then dont bother. If you are having ANY problems with mana though, on any fight, then get a second point in it - its worth it.

[Yewen]

Hi I am new to this forum but far from new to wow and paladin's, I have specked this guy to no cookie cutter and honestly rather like the build I chose just from reading the spells. I also gear him the best of my ability without paying to much attention to Gear score over pure stats as that doesn't help anyone ever in ICC. But after reading some posts on here and just googleing around online after the guild's main pali healer told me 3 times in a 232 heroic. That I take so much damage, I cant help but think there is something I can improve. Honestly as heals I stack haste>SP>Crit and beacon 1 tank and raid heal. I hit 7k HPS and beat out almost every person/class w/5.1k GS I have raided with to date on healing, Including the guy that tells me I take so much damage in Heroics, But I can MT ICC 7/12 and no one says anything.

So I would like to know if anyone can take a look over me and tell me what needs to be improved on my tanking side, I am mostly looking at gems/enchants/talents/glyphs suggestions. Gear is a given as my tank set is only 4.9k GS there is a lot of room for improvement just out of raiding. Honestly IDK if this guy just got into my head by saying this or I actually messed something up. Btw I have no problems with threat and is the reason I MT over better geared pali's simply because I can spike threat faster and higher then them. I am not saying I am godly or anything along those lines more then likely I am just faster on GCD/Spell CD then them.

Any reviews/help is very appreciated.

As this is my first post I am Unable to post a link to my wow armory, I play on Kul Tiras and Toon name is Tankndspankk

To...many...grammer...mistakes...head...about...to...explode...
/boom!

[Deleted]

To...many...grammer...mistakes...head...about...to...explode...
/boom!

The irony is great in this one.

[Migey]

I lolled too :P

Although to be fair, he has a valid point...

[Magnusdragon]

wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&cn=Magnusdragon

I have no problems with people using armsman because it's so useful for me...frost DKS who refuse to spec into reduced threat, and fury warriors who are just OP. Its mainly for 10man because in 25s i have no threat problems at all. I also match sockets with DR + Stam and Dodge + Stam because it gives more EH than pure stamina gems. Several addons confirm it and being past def cap is never a bad thing especially in ICC with the 30% buff taking care of a lot of the stam for you.

[Palaranger]

Howdy friend :P Im from Kul Tiras too! /wave

Some of what you said is just plain wrong..

- GoDivine Plea is required. (your post makes it sound optional, but it's plain stupid to not take a constant 3% damage reduction). If you are struggling with threat, glyph of Seal of Vengeance will provide more threat than judgement, especially if you're not expertise soft capped.
- SotP is NOT more threat than crusade, especially in ICC.
- You could move the points in conviction to 2/2 vindication and SoCommand, but if you don't need the AP debuff and are trying to get all the threat you can get, keep them in conviction.
- If you need 2/2 SA in ICC you're either not keeping up DP (bad!) or you have some ridiculous mitigation (please send me your gear).

[robmcg]

glyph of Seal of Vengeance will provide more threat than judgement, especially if you're not expertise soft capped.

Yeah I don't need the AP debuff and I love me some high threat .. But just to be positive what is the Exp and Hit capp? and Dcap for pali tanks in raids? Being 100% positive would be my goal by asking this.

BTW, sorry guys My armory switches a lot from prot to holy, I do a lot of both and sometimes forget to re-equip my prot set before logging.

[Lumidar]

hit cap is 8% for melee and 17% for spells.
Exp soft cap is 26 (and the glyph gives you 10 straight up)
Def soft cap is 535 for 5man heroics and 540 for raids.

[robmcg]

hit cap is 8% for melee and 17% for spells.
Exp soft cap is 26 (and the glyph gives you 10 straight up)
Def soft cap is 535 for 5man heroics and 540 for raids.

Cheers man quick and easy, TY!

[iootnega]

And vindiction makes 0 sense if you all ready have 1-2 ret palis in the group as it doesn't stack, and is also mostly a pvp talent. Sense from what I read it takes almost no effect on a boss.

Wrong!

1. You should never rely on someone else to provide a critical mitigation debuff like vindication. What if you are offtanking something to the side while the rest of the raid is focusing on a different target? What if your ret pally dies? what if your running a 10 man with no ret pally?

2. Its NOT a PvP talent. In fact, it is first and foremost a PvE talent. Mob and boss attack power scales much differently than player attack power. Depending on the boss, Vindication can reduce the incoming damage a tank recieves by 10% or more.

[Dorn]

iootnega is completely right, the math guys over at maintankadin.com have shown that Vindication is a very very powerful boss debuff.