Thoughts on 2H Tanking

[Talen]

Having checked the spell lists I've noticed some things.

HotR works with weapon damage and not DPS.
Divine Protection works as a Shield Block.
GAnK acts as a Shield Wall.

Blinding Shield and Shield of Righteousness are (or were) MIA.

That got me thinking.

Neither Holy Shield or Avengers Shield need to require Shields. And Blizzard do want to differentiate Warrior and Paladin tanking.

So....

What do Paladins feel about the possibility of tanking using a 2H weapon? Pure speculation and not interested in mechanics or the possibility it'd make DKs and Paladins too alike instead.

Just...if Blizzard put in suitable mechanics to replace the shield, would you like the change?

EJL

[Elessa]

I feel it would look stupid and dumb, and not make any sense at all. Especially since out mastery is BLOCK.

[Talen]

I feel it would look stupid and dumb, and not make any sense at all. Especially since out mastery is BLOCK.

The mastery that doesn't exist anymore?

"The original passive Mastery bonuses players were to receive according to how they spent points in each tree are being replaced by the automatic passive bonuses earned when a tree specialization is chosen."

Blizzard also said that warriors would block less often for more....and then apparently gave them the baseline 15% block chance paladins work to get from Holy Shield. Nothing wrong with that, and its always possible that the 15% is on top of the base block chance.

However, as I said, I'm not asking about mechanics. I'm not even interested in arguing that Blizzard will or will not do this. It can be done, and its Blizzards choice if they take that route or not.

I simply noted that a lot of shield spells....don't require shields, that the description from Blizzard states "Uses Holy magic to shield himself ", that Blizzard want to differentiate between warriors and Paladins, that some skills which required shields were removed while others that required dedicated tanking weapons were tweaked and so on.

I'm interested...well, curious....in seeing if people would like it. I take it that you'd be a no, that you wouldn't like it? Is that because it would look "stupid and dumb" or would there be another reason?

EJL

[Lightfist]

Replace the shield? Nah. They said they wanted us to be block tanks (THE block tanks, actually...which raises the question why Warriors have as much block as we do with Holy Shield without doing anything, but that's another discussion).

Would I like it if we could tank with a 2 hander, if not as effectively? Sure, I don't see why not.

[zorkuus]

no

I think that will suffice for constructive feedback on this subject.

[Cruxidus]

Not for progression tanking but I can tank heroics as ret now (you gotta be geared, please don't try this fresh 80 I feel like I just ruined a couple pugs by saying this). Its alot of fun if you know what you're doing just like BC shockadin-ing. Yay for alternate playstyles

[Deleted]

For kicks, sure, why not. But I doubt it will get you far in cata.

[mikabob]

as the previous speaker.... to be able to tank with a 2hander... all good, but nothing really for progression.

[Talen]

Replace the shield? Nah. They said they wanted us to be block tanks (THE block tanks, actually...which raises the question why Warriors have as much block as we do with Holy Shield without doing anything, but that's another discussion).

Would I like it if we could tank with a 2 hander, if not as effectively? Sure, I don't see why not.

What about with a 2Hander? And no shield skill. As in, Paladins tank with a 2H, Warriors tank with a shield. All content. Not as an option...just 2H Tanking. Paladins just use mechanics such as Sacred Shield to make up for the lack of block.

DK style in other words.

Now you are right that Blizzard said they wanted Paladins to be a block tank but as I said, idle speculation. I fully expect ShoR and BS to be back soon.

Its a quiet day here so I need something to do

EJL

[Elessa]

The mastery that doesn't exist anymore?

"The original passive Mastery bonuses players were to receive according to how they spent points in each tree are being replaced by the automatic passive bonuses earned when a tree specialization is chosen."

Blizzard also said that warriors would block less often for more....and then apparently gave them the baseline 15% block chance paladins work to get from Holy Shield. Nothing wrong with that, and its always possible that the 15% is on top of the base block chance.

However, as I said, I'm not asking about mechanics. I'm not even interested in arguing that Blizzard will or will not do this. It can be done, and its Blizzards choice if they take that route or not.

I simply noted that a lot of shield spells....don't require shields, that the description from Blizzard states "Uses Holy magic to shield himself ", that Blizzard want to differentiate between warriors and Paladins, that some skills which required shields were removed while others that required dedicated tanking weapons were tweaked and so on.

I'm interested...well, curious....in seeing if people would like it. I take it that you'd be a no, that you wouldn't like it? Is that because it would look "stupid and dumb" or would there be another reason?

EJL

Must've missed that. Still, it wouldn't make any sense at all. Also, "Shield of Righteousness" and "Avenger's Sheild" type of abilities not requiring a shield is pretty dumb.
If it is as you say you could do, but I think it'd be far from optimal. Think of it as shaman 2h or tanking in wotlk.

[Sylreick]

Make warriors the only tanks with shields? No competition on the drops? We already have that with healing plate.

To me the whole idea of tanking as a paladin involves shields (and 2h poles, but that's in other games). They're just warriors fighting for the holy light.

[Migey]

Uhm... whats GAnK? (and MIA?)

Sorry. Terminology noob. i assume GAnK is a spell from context, but i've never heared of it?

[Rlyskilled]

Pallies look badass with shields, c'mon!

[omidmash]

Uhm... whats GAnK? (and MIA?)

Sorry. Terminology noob. i assume GAnK is a spell from context, but i've never heared of it?

No clue what the fuck gank is.

Ot: short answer : no.
Long answer : gtfo with stupid ideas. We are not dks.

[Atrea]

Not even remotely feasible.

HotR requires a one-handed weapon.
SoR is a major component in our tanking rotation, and will proc other abilities.

DK's gain armour and stamina by going into their tanking presence (frost atm, blood in Cataclysm), and passive abilities that increase their parry rating by their str - and abilities that proc off of parrying attacks - something that would be ridiculous to give ALL prot paladins. (As opposed to abilities that proc off of blocks, like Paladins get (Reckoning))

So no, not even possible with the current Prot Paladin design; they'd have to redesign it to use 2h'ers - and that is not going to happen.

[Migey]

Having checked the spell lists I've noticed some things.

HotR works with weapon damage and not DPS.
Divine Protection works as a Shield Block.
GAnK acts as a Shield Wall.

EJL

So what is GAnK and what does it do?

[Zaldin]

Uhm... whats GAnK? (and MIA?)

Sorry. Terminology noob. i assume GAnK is a spell from context, but i've never heared of it?

No idea about gank. but MIA is mostly used as Missing in Action, I think.

[Migey]

Waitwut? So he means they are removing Blinding Shield and SoR?

[Shadowtrans]

No idea about gank. but MIA is mostly used as Missing in Action, I think.

Guardian of Ancient Kings

[Talen]

Must've missed that. Still, it wouldn't make any sense at all. Also, "Shield of Righteousness" and "Avenger's Sheild" type of abilities not requiring a shield is pretty dumb.
If it is as you say you could do, but I think it'd be far from optimal. Think of it as shaman 2h or tanking in wotlk.

I was thinking more akin to a Death Knight. I don't think that need necessarily be an issue, because that in turn would leave open the possibility of DKs being DW tanks. So, I think it would, indeed, be "optimal". Or just as good. Mechanics wise, we know it could be done and indeed, the Paladin is half way there already.

And ShoR? What if we called it Exorcism? Avengers Shield? What if we called it what it actully is...a disc of Holy energy?

But as I said, I'm curious as to how peopel feel about paladins being a 2H tank.

---------- Post added 2010-07-24 at 05:03 PM ----------

So no, not even possible with the current Prot Paladin design; they'd have to redesign it to use 2h'ers - and that is not going to happen.

They're redesigning the spec right now. And it could be argued that the recent change to HotR would help with such a change.

But mechanics is not what I'm interested in discussing.

I take it you don't like the idea?

---------- Post added 2010-07-24 at 05:05 PM ----------

So what is GAnK and what does it do?

Guardian of Ancient Kings.

For Prot...its basically Shield Wall. A replacement for Divine Purpose.
---------- Post added 2010-07-24 at 05:09 PM ----------

Waitwut? So he means they are removing Blinding Shield and SoR?

I wouldn't expect them to. But they were misisng from the latest skill list. BS was replaced with Inquisition and the Beta group were wondering why they'd lost it and couldn't retrain it.

But the fact they weren't there (they may be back as I write) simply gave me the thought that it may be a deliberate ploy to differentiate warrior and paladin tanking. Which made me wonder if such a change would be welcome or not.

EJL