A few Ret Pally Questions

[Mdaz]

So I've been reading news daily on ret pallies since alpha for Cata was announced and so far I only have a few questions and want you guys feedback on what you think blizzard will do.

First off, Haste...Yeah the whole "Makes you get resource faster" or something...Our Official resource is mana, but if you actually play ret you know our resource is Ability Cooldown/GCD. How do you think they will make haste affect us?

Second of all Art of War is now 15% off meele swing. If we haste doesn't affect weapon speed anymore the fastest weapon we can get is 3.40 and the better weapons for us our 3.60/3.70 meaning we only get 4 swings every 15 seconds. Exo isn't going to be up off CD. (I've notice a lot when my 2 piece doesn't proc and thats a 40% chance for 10 seconds). Also, now with the AoW change we behave like warriors waiting for slam or execute (not exactly, by but yeah). If they get 2 procs in a row they use them, if we get two procs in a row...15 second wait -.-. Anyways, question is, what do you think they will change exo into?

This conculdes my questions...for now

[Dorn]

Exo is changed to either a 4 or 6 second cd now, so you'll be able to use it far more often. The Art of War procs are based on all melee attacks on beta right now (judgement, cs, auto-attack, ect..) and from what i've read its up like 95% of the time when you need it.

[anaxie]

Templar's verdict as of now is 20% of our mana. Coupled with JotW being 40% OVER TIME MANA and Judgement as of now is a 10 SECOND cooldown also don't forget the removal of JUDGEMENT OF WISDOM which was an ample source of our regen. I'm pretty sure we are going to need faster regen from our JotW with haste but along with it, the haste makes our very strong 5 stack tick faster and if our new deep talent is any indication 30% more damage from it ontop of faster ticks as we gain haste is a very nice compliment to the stat.

If Crusader strike gets bumped to 3 seconds mana usage will ramp up too so. yeah

[Aildaris]

As they said in the blue post, haste, in addition to increasing our attack speed, will also increase the amount of damage from the DoTs on our Seal of Vengeance/Corruption (now Seal of Truth) and the amount of mana we get back from JotW, which was made into a mastery ability.

AoW is actually 30% off of melee attacks, since it is a 2 point talent (15/30) and as I just stated above that haste DOES still make our melee swings faster, you do not need to worry about how haste affects your weapon swings. Also it said melee ATTACKS, not melee SWINGS, which means abilities like DS, CS, TV and possibly Judge will have a chance to proc AoW. So there is no need to worry about AoW proccing, we will still have it proc well before our exo comes off CD.

[Lydecker]

I have one quesstion too: Why does SoV only stack up with auto-attacks and not with all our single target attacks, as it's said by the tooltip... and apparently it's still the same problem with the current SoTruth in the beta

[anaxie]

As they said in the blue post, haste, in addition to increasing our attack speed, will also increase the amount of damage from the DoTs on our Seal of Vengeance/Corruption (now Seal of Truth) and the amount of mana we get back from JotW, which was made into a mastery ability.

AoW is actually 30% off of melee attacks, since it is a 2 point talent (15/30) and as I just stated above that haste DOES still make our melee swings faster, you do not need to worry about how haste affects your weapon swings. Also it said melee ATTACKS, not melee SWINGS, which means abilities like DS, CS, TV and possibly Judge will have a chance to proc AoW. So there is no need to worry about AoW proccing, we will still have it proc well before our exo comes off CD.

I like how we post the same shit for 4 consecutive posts. question has been answered, now either more questions or /thread.

---------- Post added 2010-07-24 at 04:56 PM ----------

I have one quesstion too: Why does SoV only stack up with auto-attacks and not with all our single target attacks, as it's said by the tooltip... and apparently it's still the same problem with the current SoTruth in the beta

All classes have a ramp up time, apply sunders, begin slice n dice, apply dots, this is our ramp up.

Currently I'm more concerned with how underwhelming Divine storm is for taking holy power. 3 stack should do well over 100% aoe damage for that much HP.

[Mdaz]

30% is a lot better, my tooltip was stuck at the rank 1 of the talent when I looked at it

I still don't see mana being an issue. An increase mana output doesn't increase damage as much as increase focus/energy regen and weapon speed for warriors(which last time I heard are the only class who will benefit from haste via weapon speed.) We are also losing Conc(22% of our mana currently and a 10 second CD glyphed) out of our rotation and TV (20% every 9 seconds) unless our Bottom End CD is up will be on 9 second at least and we don't have to reapply inquisition. So I'm not as worried about mana.

[Aildaris]

"All classes have a ramp up time, apply sunders, begin slice n dice, apply dots, this is our ramp up."

Yeah all classes have a ramp up time but ours is slow and boring unlike others. Sunder requires to actually use sunder, DoTs require you to actually use DoTs, slice and dice requires to use abilities that put combo points on the target (and also we just got a new ability that serves the same purpose as slice and dice). Applying the DoTs from auto attacks for SoTruth is a really dumb mechanic and should change because it is far to slow to wait for us to auto-hit the target to 5 stacks and requires no skill at all to do.

Plus the fact that if you stop attacking the target for a little bit (which is required for many boss fights) the stacks are gone and you wait forever to get it back.

I'm hoping blizzard will make SoT have other abilities apply the DoTs and also increase the time to atleast 25 secs.

[Mdaz]

I like how we post the same shit for 4 consecutive posts. question has been answered, now either more questions or /thread.

I asked for your opinions on how it should work. Not how it is currently working. I want to know if I'm the only one who think haste mechanic is lack-luster. And that AoW looks....stupid. So...yeah. Let them post as much feedback as they want!

[Lydecker]

I agree with the fact we must have some time before we can reach our best dps level, but at least we shall be able to stack it up with crusader strike AND auto-attacks.

Auto-attacks are not something we can really control when we hit the target, and I really think it takes too much time to get the five stacks if the target is moving or vanishing or everything else

[Mdaz]

Also, Divine Storm is only for AoE fights.
That is why it hits an unlimited number of mobs.
90% weapondamage to 15 mobs is better then 110% damage against 4.
We do have a talent that gives DS a chance to give Hp, so if that is based on every DS hit, it will mean we can spam DS after DS on AoE fights.

Hail to the AoE-king, baby! Pallies will do a lot of damage there.

Its still going to max out at 110%. 20% base and a 90% damage increase for 3 HP. 110% damage The question is, the redone talent, Divine Purpose: Inquisition, DS and TV have a 40% chance to generate HP...for DS, will it be on cast or on damage dealt, wouldn't be the first time they made something proc off multiple AoE hits. Also does DS have a CD still? It doesn't say there is a CD on DS in the talents...so I'm assuming there isn't one anymore...IE OPed AoE

[HotSauce]

Haste and mana:
We will get 40% of our mana back over 10 seconds with Judgement.
As far as I know that will be on a 7 or 8 seconds cooldown. Let's assume 7 for now.

Every 7 seconds you will refresh your mana return, thus 'wasting' 3 seconds of it.
But haste will make it tick faster, so with enough haste we will get 40% mana over 7 seconds.
Then we refresh it and get another 40% over 7 seconds.
That is how haste improves our mana return.
Without haste: 280% over 70 seconds.
With enough haste: 400% over 70 seconds.
(Numbers might be different, but this is the general idea)

Second question:
30% with every melee swing
And no idea, I hope they fix it.. The ability seems so bad, even now I'd rather use that proc for a 'useless' FoL on somebody.
But the best thing might be to lower the proc and make the talent also refresh the cooldown

PS. Haste will also increase the Censure ticks. Censure is the new dot from Seal of Truth (Former Seal of Corruption/Vengeance)

CD for judge is 10sec.

[Ronark]

CD for judge is 10sec.

In beta, it is 8.

It doesn't say there is a CD on DS in the talents...so I'm assuming there isn't one anymore...IE OPed AoE

Rogues can already spam AoE (that hits unlimited targets, o less), as can Warriors and (to a lesser extent) DKs- So why not Paladins?

[Ryme]

In beta, it is 8.



Rogues can already spam AoE (that hits unlimited targets, o less), as can Warriors and (to a lesser extent) DKs- So why not Paladins?

Well, you can, talented (as it should be) in an AoE fight your DS will be spammable with high damage results nearly every time.

[Ronark]

Well, you can, talented (as it should be) in an AoE fight your DS will be spammable with high damage results nearly every time.

Umm, if you are agreeing with me, then yeah, sure

[Mdaz]

In beta, it is 8.

Rogues can already spam AoE (that hits unlimited targets, o less), as can Warriors and (to a lesser extent) DKs- So why not Paladins?

Patch Notes say they removing the decreased CD on judgment...New Beta build that is. And what were saying is if many mobs, we will have unlimited DS spamming, rogues have to wait for energy, warriors Rage...If we get chain 3 HP per DS, another DS yay for no resource system, just judge every 10 seconds and hey you beat the the World....the World of Wrathcraft where CC doesn't exist and we can AoE everything...wait arn't they changing that