Undeath (Spoilers)

[Moopuff]

In silverpine in cataclysm we learn that the forsaken are unable to raise anything that is human (and maybe high elves?) through a few quests, however what I am now wondering is how is there deathknights that are dwarves, gnomes, night elves, and such. Are they really dead? I can't remember having them actually being called undead except when Thaurissian saying they are all brothers are in death, I am likely wrong on that point however for it has been a while.

[Deleted]

I think it because Forsaken only recruit human and high elves.. If i remember right...

[Chaotiz]

Val'kyr =/= Arthas

Maybe Arthas could pull it off but the Val'kyr can't?

[Dominating]

I think Death Knights are undead warriors of the Scourge. They fell in battle and were raised by the Lich King to serve him mindlessly. But for gameplay purposes, like the Forsaken playable race, they're classified as humanoids. Lorewise, they're undead.

[Aroldo]

I'm pretty sure they can raise humans but they cant raise the ones who drink worgen blood if i recall.

[Babetina415]

Death Knights were raise by the Lich King,not the forsaken.

[Deleted]

In silverpine in cataclysm we learn that the forsaken are unable to raise anything that is human (and maybe high elves?) through a few quests, however what I am now wondering is how is there deathknights that are dwarves, gnomes, night elves, and such. Are they really dead? I can't remember having them actually being called undead except when Thaurissian saying they are all brothers are in death, I am likely wrong on that point however for it has been a while.

That's because of the Lich King, he could raise pretty much anything he wanted.

Now, it seems that the Val'kyr can only raise humans. Most probably because the humans are their descendents.

[Gigawolf1]

This may be due to the fact that the Val'kyr were designed to raise the willing from the dead. Before they joined the Forsaken, they worked almost exclusively on Vrykul. That may also be due to the link between the two races.

[Noverias]

I dont pay attention to lore but I thought they were like Converted or killed pallys

[Tavek]

The Lich King is the master of necromancy. He can raise just about anything from the dead. However, Val'kyr were merely his pawns to raise things. But perhaps without the Lich King's blessing, their powers to raise the dead are more limited.

Also, it's made pretty clear that the worgen are immune to being raised by the Forsaken's Val'kyr's.

[Nameraca]

The Lich King is the master of necromancy. He can raise just about anything from the dead. However, Val'kyr were merely his pawns to raise things. But perhaps without the Lich King's blessing, their powers to raise the dead are more limited.

Also, it's made pretty clear that the worgen are immune to being raised by the Forsaken's Val'kyr's.

So, if this is true.... Worgen DKs? Blizz should "retcon" or just make that part clear... Can the Lich King raise anything, or not? Right now, there's only speculation on that point... And then what about the Valkyr's? Also, there's a lot of "doing that to fit gameplay purposes" right now.

[Deleted]

So, if this is true.... Worgen DKs? Blizz should "retcon" or just make that part clear... because there's a lot of "doing that to fit gameplay purposes" right now.

Worgen DKs are not that hard. The Lich King's princes raised Arugal after all.

[Dominating]

So, if this is true.... Worgen DKs? Blizz should "retcon" or just make that part clear... Can the Lich King raise anything, or not? Right now, there's only speculation on that point... And then what about the Valkyr's? Also, there's a lot of "doing that to fit gameplay purposes" right now.

This is actually the biggest hole in the plot. Goblin and Worgen DKs will make little or no sense unless the events of WOTLK somehow take place after the 1-58 leveling curve and begin at level 80. But Blizzard said that you're going back in time for Outland and Northrend, so in that case, you're a Worgen going back in time, you die, get raised by The Lich King in the past, and... wat.

Maybe you stay in human form for the DK quests, go back to the phased Gilneas, and do those quests and become a Worgen?

[jangkun]

The Lich King is dead. Long live the Lich King. Bolvar is the new LK, it's a "secret" but DK will still exist since btw they fight with ally/horde and will be useful against the incoming Cataclysm and dragon sh*t

[Deleted]

This is actually the biggest hole in the plot. Goblin and Worgen DKs will make little or no sense unless the events of WOTLK somehow take place after the 1-58 leveling curve and begin at level 80. But Blizzard said that you're going back in time for Outland and Northrend, so in that case, you're a Worgen going back in time, you die, get raised by The Lich King in the past, and... wat.

Maybe you stay in human form for the DK quests, go back to the phased Gilneas, and do those quests and become a Worgen?

We will have just to assume that they are not Gilneans or could be some of Silverpine Worgen (they are Gilneans). After all, the Worgen are everywhere.

[Deleted]

But isn't is also true that you cannot actually play a Worgen or Goblin DK in the beta yet? Because if so, isn't it likely that Blizzard might make their starting experience a little bit different from the other DKs? Would make the most sense to me.

[archaenjil]

worgen/goblin DK's are just more game mechanics like holy forsaken priests when holy burns any undead regardless of their personality. Its stupid but so are gnome dk's, like Arthas would bother raising half pints that can't technically lift a runeblade. Death Knights died in battle and were so strong in undeath they were given the chance to follow Arthas. They weren't mindless minions.

The Val'kyr are considerably more limited in rezzing. The Forsaken were taken from humand and high elf stock just because of the region of the plague. It's possible they could have gnomes, dwarves and all sorts of races but for gameplay's sake they kept it simple.

If it's true they can't rez worgen then perhaps they really want to play the "vampires can't make werewolf vampires" shtick. Rezzing Arugal isn't a break in that because he never was worgen, he just was a fallen mage obsessed with them.

[Ryune]

This is actually the biggest hole in the plot. Goblin and Worgen DKs will make little or no sense unless the events of WOTLK somehow take place after the 1-58 leveling curve and begin at level 80. But Blizzard said that you're going back in time for Outland and Northrend, so in that case, you're a Worgen going back in time, you die, get raised by The Lich King in the past, and... wat.

Maybe you stay in human form for the DK quests, go back to the phased Gilneas, and do those quests and become a Worgen?

You could just be one of the worgen from Pyrewood.

Goblins are easy, they're everywhere. Not hard for one to have bad luck and bump into the scourge.

[Alraml]

It's just a gameplay device that probably will never be addressed. The Lich King can raise anything so there's no doubt he could raise a Worgen DK, it's just the time issue that probably won't be dealt with

The confusion over the plotholes in lore is nowhere near what the mass complaining would be if Blizzard turned around and said the new races couldn't go DK

Death Knights in the very nature are a plothole. You talk to a guy who goes "Oh remember Azuremyst, etc, etc, etc" yet I go back there and all the quests are available. So no, I don't remember Azuremyst cause I clearly did nothing there

[shadow121292]

The Goblin DKs are not that far fetched as there were many Goblins that went to Northrend for business between TFT and Wrath allowing for at any time they died and were rerisen. As for Worgen you can say they are some of the woodsmen in Grizzly that were raised shortly after the invasion north began.(Otherwise Worgen are mainly gameplay wise.)

As for them not being able to raise non-humans its obvious why. Gameplay. Blizz feels that making models for the other undead races is too time consuming and unecessary.(Or they're just lazy.) It requires different models being created other then the standard Human Forsaken that are playable or unique ones like the Dark Rangers. Also It could lead to player demands for the ability to decide what race their Forsaken is. By saying the Val'kyr can only raise Humans it forces the players to drop the idea of having the ability to play a Forsaken NE.