The time has come.... for Sleep

[Direshadow]

You are assuming that Sleep would basically be a stun where you can keep damaging them. I don't think Sleep would tip the scales and make you overpowered against casters if it was a 1.5 second cast single target CC that broke on damage, it wouldn't really make much of a difference against the person you are killing since it would get broken by your DoTs anyway. It could be more like Polymorph where you use it for control on a target you are not trying to damage or in PVE.

If you were playing in Arenas you'd understand that if you're team is smart, sleep would pretty much be a stun.

[sacrypheyes]

Neither of those classes can burn the other healer / dpses mana though. Nor do they have bubbles that allow them to cast as much as they want without being interruped. Admitedly in the case of druids most of their spells are hots, but catch them without anything on and there's little to nothing they can do. You can shackle DK's gargoyle CD- and most of all you can kill stuff because you do more damage than any other healer and you will still do come Cata - even more actually.

And this is from a healer's PoV only. SPs can also silence, disarm and break snares, besides slowing their targets with MF.

As for the QQ about lack of CC in instances, shackle is a viable CC and there are plenty of undead mobs around to shackle...

You might not have as much CC but you make up for it through other skills. Also Paladins have AM too... :P

-mana burn isn't a cc, and i'd gladly give it away to get a decent cc.
-bubbles never protected you from being interrupted, and most healers spec into pushback reduction (or else they sure are crappy healers)
-shackle is neat, but how should i put it... an ability which we can have a use of for 1 class (actually 1 spec for the gargoyle) out of 10 (or 30 specs) is... lame.
-as a healer class & spec, maybe i'd want to heal rather than being able to dish out so few dps even if it's -a bit- more than the other healers, and best way to heal others is to stay alive long enough, which is what ccs are there to help to and what we awfully lack.

maybe because its a pure healer class and not a hybrid yet they do some of the highest dmg of any class and i got cc locked and nuked to death with 1224 resilliance from 100%-0% in the space of 10 seconds

stfu please priest cc is fine.

a "pure" healer class with one of the highest dps... i have yet to see that, sure isn't wow priests, at least not in a "pure" healer spec.

oh, and i highly doubt you sir ever played a priest to say their cc capability is fine.

pvp-wise, the only reliant cc we have is psychic horror with it HUGE cd, psychic scream has been nerfed to hell since long ago, silence isn't what i'd call a cc to begin with.


edit :
oh, and i'm seeing everyone talking bout Spriests all the way, did priests lose their 2 other trees?

i don't remember having horror & silence changed as priest base abilities.

[Abandon]

If you were playing in Arenas you'd understand that if you're team is smart, sleep would pretty much be a stun.

As much of a stun as Polymorph is, or Seduce. So, not a stun. You can say that through clever use and team work it could work like a stun, but you can say the same thing about silences and snares. Hell, if you were worried about it being abused or overpowered in PVP then you could put it on the same DR as Fear or Polymorph to keep it in line. Also, remember that every healer will have Dispel Magic and would be able to remove it.

[Blackmorgrim]

As with the OP, I think there's too much focus on the current state of the game. Blizzard has been pretty adamant about reducing the "arms race" of CC / anti-CC abilities in the game, so we can probably expect that some of the ways that we are currently locked down or have fear mitigated by melee will disappear in Cataclysm.

That said, I don't see why "sleep" would be needed. As someone else noted earlier in the thread, we already have a great spammable CC spell in Shackle. Maybe the right solution is to allow it to act on all mobs instead of only undead?

If it's shadow priests that we're primarily worried about, one thing that I think would be a very cool (and in the same spirit as a PVP CC ability) would be a "shadow prison" similar to what the Blood Prince Council has on heroic mode. Something that gives melee a penalty for chasing us, and allows us to do a bit of damage while trying to kite them. At the very least it would be unique!

Honestly, I do like the shadow prison idea. I do agree we really don't really need a spammable CC. The main issue has been priests (particularly shadow) falling severely behind in the CC arms races, and I hear stuns and CCs in general are being nerfed across the board. Many of the current CC's would be fine if DR applied to all CCs, or if some had increased cooldowns or plain damage caps like most root and fear effects. Plus, in a team, its too easy to reset DRs. Added to that, was giving melee class in particular 4-5 different type of CC, plus enhanced mobility, allowing them to get in range easily, keep the target locked down, and unable to escape. Then they would have all those cooldowns up usually within 60 seconds of use. The days of World of Stuncraft need to go. I mean pvp is 5s and BGs are pretty much lynch mob tactics.

I'm also hoping for a return the vanilla days of stunlock when rogues were really the only ones who could do it. Plus, you had to really know what you're doing to get it done. And if you trinketed out of one of their stuns, it actually did give you a 2-3 second window before another stun could be put on you.

For instance, if rogues are truly going to have Smokescreen (I truly feel this is going to be one of THE most overpowered abilities in pvp) they will need to have all their stuns subject to DRs, including cheap shot. And honestly, they have enough tools are their disposal that they don't truly need it.

Another thing that will help immensely is melee no longer having access to Armor pen, beyond talents. But unless CCs are dealt with properly, having 60k health pools won't mean much. I mean, at 860 Resilience, I've had a full Wrath Pally cream me for over 45k damage in 2.5 seconds. Though, again with recent pally changes, I don't think Rets have that ability to frontload their cooldowns like that anymore.

[uncannyllama]

along the same vein of thought i could easily say something like "Paladins with a 60% sprint for 10 seconds every 30 seconds is F*CKING OVERPOWERED" but paladins actually are getting that in cata, and my assumption is that it will be fair and balanced in the finished cataclysm product.

Man....please tell me when this happens....cause ive been playing Beta for a long time now and ive yet to see anything about a paladin sprint.

[sacrypheyes]

For instance, if rogues are truly going to have Smokescreen (I truly feel this is going to be one of THE most overpowered abilities in pvp) they will need to have all their stuns subject to DRs, including cheap shot. And honestly, they have enough tools are their disposal that they don't truly need it.

cheap shot is trinketable, so it's fine by me. sap on the other hand, was and still is THE stupidest ability usable in pvp, it amazes me bliz didn't prevent its use with players.

[foxHeart]

Shadowpriests need a buff? lol!

[Dianthe]

-mana burn isn't a cc, and i'd gladly give it away to get a decent cc.
-bubbles never protected you from being interrupted, and most healers spec into pushback reduction (or else they sure are crappy healers)
-shackle is neat, but how should i put it... an ability which we can have a use of for 1 class (actually 1 spec for the gargoyle) out of 10 (or 30 specs) is... lame.
-as a healer class & spec, maybe i'd want to heal rather than being able to dish out so few dps even if it's -a bit- more than the other healers, and best way to heal others is to stay alive long enough, which is what ccs are there to help to and what we awfully lack.

And from that I realize that a. you probably never PvP b. If you do pvp you are one of those awful players that can't get over 1k rating no matter what comp they play and QQ endlessly about how their class is underpowered. Actually you really are just terrible and should probably abstain from posting on these forums all together. Also read your friggin tool tips :"Draws on the soul of the friendly target to shield them, absorbing 2230 damage. Lasts 30 sec. While the shield holds, spellcasting will not be interrupted by damage. Once shielded, the target cannot be shielded again for 15 sec."

[Theed]

o, really.

Hear me out.

(think of one of those movie trailer announcer guys while reading this)

In a world...

Where every class and their dog's mother's kitchen sink has crowd control...

One class...

Is left alone...

okay no really what if shadow got Sleep, like priests had in the classic beta, except deep in the shadow tree?

At its strongest it could be a straight up spammable CC to rival even Sheep. At its weakest it could be more like Repentence.

Before you cry nerf, there's plenty that can be done to make it balanced and fine. Make it share DR with fear, take away our Psychic Horror or Mind Control or something else.

I'm not actually interested in discussing the balance issues of it quite yet, because yes I realize that at this point in Wrath it would push shadow way, way over the edge of reasonable power, but this is Cataclysm we're talking about, where the entire game is changing, and things are likely to be completely different.

Consider that, in Cataclysm, a single Balance druid will be able to silence a HUGE cluster of enemy casters for a full 10 seconds or until they get out of the beam (which still takes a few seconds). Consider the immense, dramatic effect that one Balance druid can have in a rated BG, and tell me you doubt that the balance of things is not shifting wildly enough to think about introducing big new mechanics like this.

The balance of Shadow having strong ranged single target CC in Cata is so highly debatable that, for right now, I'd rather just explore what other people think about whether it fits or not.

So here's what excites me about the idea:

1. It's unique. No other class has any kind of sleep ability that's usable on humanoids, except Wyvern Sting, and that's different enough not to seem like a ripped-off ability at all.

2. It fits in with the class lore. Priests - and shadowpriests in particular - are the wielders of psychic and mind powers. It makes sense for us to be able to put people to sleep. Call it Shadow/Power Word: Sleep if you want to, though just Sleep would also suffice. AND, priests have actually already had it, once upon a time, so that makes even more sense.

3. It adds something truly new to the spec. Shadowpriests justifiably complain that we have played exactly the same since Classic. Fear, PWS, dots, Silence, Mind Blast, Mind Flay. Now and then we get something new that doesn't really change much. After five years we have a total of three new toys, none of which alters the playstyle significantly - Vampiric Touch (just a new dot), Dispersion (unique and solid defensive cooldown), and Psychic Horror (pretty neat long cooldown short duration lockdown ala death coil).

Other classes change dramatically from expansion to expansion, each getting a whole pile of neat new toys to play with. I won't list any unless I have to, because I don't want to look like a spoiled kid who only got two toys while Billy got three, but I doubt any other spriests will disagree with me on this point: I would really love to get something truly new and interesting.

Ok, I am now ready for your flaming. You may proceed.

Oh my god.
I cant believe you wrote exactly what i thought. This was exactly my idea. This is exactly what shadow currently lacks.

[Annesh]

holy balls the great and powerful theed praises my idea

today i have become a man