not looking good for enh

[aether99]

Guess you miss the part about damage being easy to tune once mechanics are working as intended. Guess you also think "farthest along" means finished or anywhere near finished.

Stop your QQing and learn to be patient.

hmm....no

---------- Post added 2010-07-26 at 12:15 PM ----------

Okay, that was my bad then. But the main thing I've been aiming at, is while the system is broken, the main thing it's there for is a pure vs hybrid scenario. Wrath did get rid of a lot of utility for most hybrid classes, which upset me. But from what I've seen so far, I've got hopes that they're bringing back the need to crowd control, not just in raids, but in 5-mans as well. Which I feel this is going to help bring back a lot of utility for a lot of classes.

im fine with pure vs hybrid nonsense. im also fine with getting rid of the utility for most hybrid classes because really the only time i ever see it get used effectively is leveling, endgame its just not potent enough and your better off doing your job and letting others do theres.

[Addamus]

I've just always been a fan of having to do more than go all out dps on a boss to kill it. Yeah, it's alright to have one or two of those fights early in a raid as a dps check. But I enjoy the fights that call for a little extra thought. Like Leo in SSC. Having to have a lock tank him when he went into his demon form. That called for a non traditional tank and I found it fun. I'm hoping they bring back more things like that, which, if the videos for BRC are any hint, they will.

[saagjin]

so finely you no longer wil be picked for your bufs and you wil be picked cause the damage you can put out? only seems fair

[aether99]

so finely you no longer wil be picked for your bufs and you wil be picked cause the damage you can put out? only seems fair

why do i feel like people dont read? what part of my post makes people feel like im sore about my unique buffs getting taken away, im not!, if anything ive been for such a change for a while specifically because it would remove that as a excuse to keep our dps down.

[MundungusFundrak]

I for one think the enh tree looks good, I already get taken into raids ahead of other supposedly 'better' classes because I know what I am doing, it helps that the server I play on has such a low pop, but nonetheless the opportunity happens. Also I think that the tuning of abilities like unleash weapon and lava burst will mean that the shammy should have room to be right up there on the meters. Keep your hope up guys.

[Lagwin]

I have been waiting to see if there is going to be some deacent buffing to enhance damage and there has been some ok changes but just as many bad ones.
Dont know if they have updated the stats they want to give us on our armour as yet but it seemed that they have totaly ignored the ap we got from int and the agi seemed to stay the same as it was on the t10 items meaning we would drop 500 to 700 ap(hopefuly the new gear will compensate for this), i like the ghost wolf tallent now but it seems we may not beable to grab it if we spec purley for dps, could give up some hit but i realy dont think that will happen since we can get upto 9%..6% from specing enhance and 3% from the ele tallent.
The other one that is quite deperessing is mastery, if i remember right the first 2 are a static buff now and the only one gaining benefit is the last one to nature damage,it just seemed daft to buff just nature damage, as it is atm i dont think stacking mastery is going to be worth it for enhance unless they change it to elemental damage like they were talking about.
so just waiting now to see the glyphs(would assume theres going to be one for searing totems debuff not getting removed with lavalash).

[Melonberry]

You had one of the most involved rotations...and you wanted more?

Most likely they'll just buff your damage without changing mechanics. The reasons shamans were held back is because bloodlust is crazy good, now that it's not unique it'll be a bit more even.

Ele is the better dps spec in icc anyways, so it's not like shamans weren't viable.

[Deleted]

this is the feeling i have as well. you say we can heal in a pinch? our heals will not save someone. we can rez...big woop, now if you said battlerez id get behind you on that. totems are inferior version of other buffs (just because of the drawbacks of totems themselves), bloodlust isnt unique anymore come cata (mages get it too).

we dont have the unique excuse anymore, totems are actually worse mechanic wise then other buffs, and offhealing just...doesnt happen in endgame, its not nearly worth it.

It is a perfectly legitimate point that Shamans were the only class with Heroism/Bloodlust and Blizzard wants to share the buffs out, so what happens to other unique abilities such as a Battle Rez.

Can someone who can post on the US Forums ask the question. What is happening to Druids Battle Rez? That is a unique, Raid changing ability that can make or break an encounter (just as they argued that Heroism/Bloodlust can). Perhaps as a Master of the Elements they'd see fit to give a battle rez to Shaman. So that Druids aren't the only class with this unique raid encounter changing ability.

[Melonberry]

They mentioned soul stones being able to be cast on dead members and used as brez. That was a while ago though, I'll post when I get back from class.

[Tides]

They're changing the off-tank issue in Cataclysm though. With the Unleash Weapon skill and the changed Rockbiter Weapon, a shaman will be able to taunt

FYI Shamans are the class in the game with the lowest base hp. Any Shaman dumb enough to taunt a raid boss will get instagibbed.

For Addamus:

Pure vs Hybrid. Shaman vs Rogue. (As a example)

Let's recap here what Shamans acually brings as Utility.

I'm not gonna list buffs, cause buffs aint unique anymore and you wont be bringing a Shaman for the buffs as there's stronger Hybrids with the same buffs.

So Enhance got:
Ankh.
Gimped healing.
Tremor.
Can taunt to get instagibbed (After we've used 2 globals at least to apply weapon imbue and use UW (Might be on CD))
Earthbind totem. Doesnt apply properly though :S
Bind Elemental (Sheep on Elemtanls)
Hex. Long CD cc that's always broken.

Rogues got:
Evasion tanking (Yeah. Bosses get tanked from 1% to 0% sometimes by a rogue).
Tricks: Mass threat spammage on the tank.
FoK with crippling poison. Blind for cc.
Vanish, for resetting threat.
Feint for aggro dump and 70% aoe reduction or something silly.
Trap disarming.
Sap.
Stuns.


Now tell me.. Considering a Rogues massive massive dps advantage over Shamans.. Can you REALY still belive your point holds true? Especially considering Rogues aint even done getting their Cata stuff yet. Shamans are done it seems.

[conscript]

You also have to take into account utility. Shaman won't bring as much dps as other classes, even most hybrids because they bring a fair amount of utility to a group. They've got totems, Bloodlust/Heroism, ability to rez, and the ability to heal if needed. And Blizz has said in the past, the more utility a class bring, the lower the classes dps.

Totems- Similar buffs will now be brought by several different specs. Those buffs aren't dependant on the constant repositioning of a stick in the ground as they happen by default when the character does something.
Heroism- Now also brought by arguably the best pure dps class and also grants a movement speed bonus.
Rez- Brought by Priests, Paladins, Druids. How is this even a possible point in you arguing Shaman have utility? Rez isn't a utility spell.
Heal- How many times this entire expansion have you seen and Enhancement or Elemental Shaman step in to throw a crucial heal in a raiding situation? I bet you can count the number of times on one hand. The "Well they can switch to healing in an emergency" argument is one of the biggest pieces of bullshit in the game and has hampered Shaman dps specs for this entire expansion.

@OP: I am also quite disappointed in the current Shaman builds, outside of Resto. Enhancement has basically nothing new and exciting at all. I am intrigued to see how the change to make our physical abilities actually do damage and make us less reliant on spell damage. Personally I am sick of SS being a complete waste of an ability unless it procs WF because it hits incredibly weakly. Elemental seems like it will be okay, but Blizzard continuing to force the spec to talent into an aoe is pretty sad. The knockdown effect on EQ seems like it will be okay, but with a long cooldown and it being channeled I can see it becoming fairly useless for anything but trying to catch people grouped up at the start of an arena or knocking down flag carriers. Pretty meh for an end talent in comparison to basically every other dps tree end talent.

It has been far from fun watching my Enhancement Shaman slide lower and lower on the meter in ICC25. It was great fun being top dps at the beginning of the tier when no one had ICC gear, but now it is just painful to see other classes that should have comparable dps to Shaman. Druids should theoretically have worse dps than Shaman as they can fulfill every possible role, but nope they are right up there at the top. Warriors can fulfill the same number of roles as Shaman but they are impossible to touch on the dps meter. Hopefully Cat fixes Shaman, but right now it looks bleak.

[saagjin]

You had one of the most involved rotations...and you wanted more?

Most likely they'll just buff your damage without changing mechanics. The reasons shamans were held back is because bloodlust is crazy good, now that it's not unique it'll be a bit more even.

Ele is the better dps spec in icc anyways, so it's not like shamans weren't viable.

you know 2 equaly geared shamans one ele one enha the enha ones wins with bout 10% right.

[Tides]

Oh yeah, yet another downside of Shaman tutams comes to mind..
When we die - We do die. True story - Tutams disappear. ALL other buffs stick on the players.

Blizzard always said they want totems to be the Unique Iconic Shaman Ability.
So when you look at a Shaman you can think "Hah.. What a gimped class. I'll roll Rogue. Ezmode"

[Leftineus]

It is a perfectly legitimate point that Shamans were the only class with Heroism/Bloodlust and Blizzard wants to share the buffs out, so what happens to other unique abilities such as a Battle Rez.

Can someone who can post on the US Forums ask the question. What is happening to Druids Battle Rez? That is a unique, Raid changing ability that can make or break an encounter (just as they argued that Heroism/Bloodlust can). Perhaps as a Master of the Elements they'd see fit to give a battle rez to Shaman. So that Druids aren't the only class with this unique raid encounter changing ability.

Battle Rez is not a buff. Any raid that PLANS on using a battle rez is fail. Unlike heroism which
is factored in by blizzard when designing encounters and its use is planned accordingly by any good
raid leader, BR is not. Why? Because it is not a buff and it is something used when tactics fail or are not
executed properly on someone's part. It may seem like a buff when you are the one sucking dirt watching
your guildies pick up your slack, its just not a buff.

[Jimmyx]

Hehe
You forgot about class that brings most unique abilities
Buffs + Hands = Paladin
This class dont have to pay with lower dps or being weak in pvp
Leeva. I can always depend on you. I totally forgot about battle res. You are right

[conscript]

You had one of the most involved rotations...and you wanted more?

Most likely they'll just buff your damage without changing mechanics. The reasons shamans were held back is because bloodlust is crazy good, now that it's not unique it'll be a bit more even.

Ele is the better dps spec in icc anyways, so it's not like shamans weren't viable.

The "involved" rotation si just that, involved not difficult. Enhance's rotation is only complex because it contains 150 pieces. Sure there are decisions to make in terms of a priority, but the actual system makes so little a difference that the very best Enhancement and the very mediocre Enhancement won't truly be separated by much dps at all. Any buffoon can take Enhancements 15 buttons, put them on one toolbar, and just start smashing buttons and still do decent dps in comparison to a good Shaman. The main problem with this system is that the actual melee abilities Enhance uses hit like limp dicks. SS and LL are complete jokes in terms of the damage they output. The entire basis of the spec is RNG. MW procs, RNG, WF procs, RNG again.

If you remember back to the beginning of ICC, Elemental was a complete joke competitive only with the mentally dysfunctional dps and tanks. Thankfully, Blizzard buffed them back into mediocrity and now they can do the same dps as Enhancement with their super complex 4 button rotation and one timer to watch while Enhance watches two short timers, one dot, 800 cooldowns of varying lengths, etc.

Note: The more and more I think about it and read what other people say, I wonder why I continue to play my Shaman. I think if it wasn't for my achievement points, titles, and 120+ vanity pets I would start playing one of my other alts. I think account-wide achievements could in theory kill off my Shaman lol. Sadface.

[MildCore]

They should really just give Enhancement shamans some kind of "Totem Pack" talent, wheras all your Enhancement totems go onto your back. Giving you less utility, but more DPS. You automatically buff everyone within 100yds with Strength of Earth and Windfury, your melee attacks all deal an additional 10-20% as fire damage (to make up for loss of magma/searing) and you gain a new AOE ability where you can generate a volcanic Fissure which could be a channeled AOE around you (once again to make up for Magma + Fire Nova).. I personally wanted this

And no longer do you have to worry about the boss moving out of range of your magma/searing or popping down a new totem everytime adds spawn somewhere... It's what just made me say "fuck an enhancement shaman, every other class is way better in every way"

[Addamus]

People seem to forget that Blizzard is trying to move away from this expansion. They don't like the fact that hybrids have lost their utility throughout Wrath. They're aiming to change that with Cataclysm. I'm surprised at how people think that they're completely done with shaman talents and abilities for Cataclysm. It's still really early in beta. And just because they said shaman are one of the farthest along, doesn't mean a thing. They never said how close to being done any of the classes are. I'm betting we'll see a ton of changes yet with all classes.

[aether99]

You had one of the most involved rotations...and you wanted more?

Most likely they'll just buff your damage without changing mechanics. The reasons shamans were held back is because bloodlust is crazy good, now that it's not unique it'll be a bit more even.

Ele is the better dps spec in icc anyways, so it's not like shamans weren't viable.

one of the most involved rotations with comparatively the smallest return for skill invested. unlike say...feral druids who if they messed up there "rotation" there was a noticeable drop in dps.

[serif]

Some people may argue otherwise but myself I am quite saddened by hearing blizzard say shaman is one of the farthest trees along for cata.

From what ive seen so far for enhancement cata makes our one major pve issue worse (movement fights) due to lavalash and the new talents that interact with it.

And from a pvp perspective we are still watered down and generally inneffective (anyone whose good enough can make any class a winner i know).

Maybe enh is the least developed of the shaman trees, maybe not. But i know its just another notch in my enh shamans coffin, i dont want to feel like im being overtaxed in dps compared to other hybrids along with feeling weak in pvp. and by weak i dont mean i want my shaman to wtfpwn everyone, for instance one of my fav classes to pvp with is a unholy specced DK who doesnt have a ton of burst, but is good at assisting. what i mean is i feel ineffective when i bring my shaman into pvp.

Ill hold my decision off until they are finalized but so far my shaman isnt looking too good. and no, you can have his stuff lol

edit: ive had my enh shaman since the release of wow, so its not like this is a easy decision for me to make either.

since shamans lost their last great unique raid buff (heroism), they better remove the 'hybrid tax' that keeps our dps gimped compared to 'pures'.

shamans aren't special anymore; really no class is... and that's the shame of it all. in the next expansion (if there is one) they should just delete every class and make all players re-roll into a druid - since druids can do everything - tank, heal, melee, range. that way they can give us all a 3 button sequence and no matter how hard or how little you try you'll still get the same 100k dps as everyone else.