Anyone else concerned about Block?

[Ozmademos]

Just pointing out. The warriors you've played with have to be bad, Demo and Clap is up 110% of the time im tanking, OT or MT.

:>

Well, part of it might be the other tanks just not being attentive, but part of it is also the point brought up by Talen eariler; sometimes the buff that the warrior is trying to put up is done by someone else (either passively or intentionally)

[skodnar]

currently HS only give you 6% block with 3 charges, easy fixable but if this mechanic goes live my prot pala will collect dust in char selecting.

[Astray]

Every paladin has 5% block. They said that 5% seem too low, so they think about giving pallys and warriors some more. Warriors will be passive, ours is holy shield.

What do we gain from shields?
- 5% basis block
- >25% of our armor

[goomba]

Just pointing out. The warriors you've played with have to be bad, Demo and Clap is up 110% of the time im tanking, OT or MT.

:>

Just to be fair for the sake of all tanks, if you have a Paladin or Bear as either MT or OT their AP reduction is almost always superior/more frequent and overrides a prot Warrior's version (they talent, we don't... at least not in a standard impale/DW build). If there is a DK tank they most likely are taking care of the speed reduction as they IT way more than we should be T.clapping (been awhile since I have honestly looked at DK, I guess that is still how they slow attacks?).

So while the -AP and -speed debuffs are applied, it is very possible it isn't through Demo/T.clap. This comes from being a Prot warrior that constantly gets to see demo/t.clap replaced by the other talented/passive alternatives of the other tanks. We Warriors have both debuffs and can (and should) definitely keep them up ourselves 100% of the time, but other tanks have 1 or both and can often replace our own.

[Ozmademos]

Just to be fair for the sake of all tanks, if you have a Paladin or Bear as either MT or OT their AP reduction is almost always superior/more frequent and overrides a prot Warrior's version (they talent, we don't... at least not in a standard impale/DW build). If there is a DK tank they most likely are taking care of the speed reduction as they IT way more than we should be T.clapping (been awhile since I have honestly looked at DK, I guess that is still how they slow attacks?).

So while the -AP and -speed debuffs are applied, it is very possible it isn't through Demo/T.clap. This comes from being a Prot warrior that constantly gets to see demo/t.clap replaced by the other talented/passive alternatives of the other tanks. We Warriors have both debuffs and can (and should) definitely keep them up ourselves 100% of the time, but other tanks have 1 or both and can often replace our own.

Just to piggy back on this point. Much of the debuffing has been happening passively up to now, and that doesnt seem to be changing anytime soon, so I dont think warriors will be going through any inconvenience compared to Holy Shield needing to be (essentially) nerfed. Again though... very very early in the development, and I'm interested in seeing how things change over the next few weeks and months.

[aerwah]

I'm a little worried tbh, Pally's were supposed to be the Block tanks, but then you see warriors getting 15% passive, while we have to work for it, plus they have a 30second(talented) CD move that gives them 100% chance to block for 10sec (although I strongly doubt this will go live) to me it seems like something has to be done, either an increase to HS to make it ~30% block, fully HP'd up, or give us the 15% passive block as well and make some kind of change to Shield Block. If not, once again Warriors will be THE MT of choice, with all the other tank classes relagated to OT/Trash Tank/Heroic tank slots.

It happens every beta, they go off crazy with Warrior beta talents on all specs only to delete 90% of them to bring them in line before its live.

[Gallahadd]

It happens every beta, they go off crazy with Warrior beta talents on all specs only to delete 90% of them to bring them in line before its live.

haha true true true, I'm guessing the whole thing as usual will look like a total mess up until the last patch before release, then they'll fix 90% of the problems, release patch 4.0 and see what most people QQ about, then fix those things in the Cata patch :P

[Deleted]

It happens every beta, they go off crazy with Warrior beta talents on all specs only to delete 90% of them to bring them in line before its live.

with paladin talents they wait until 1 week after the patch that they came live with to hotfix nerf them all

[Mmrdkm]

if they are really intent on actually fixing us, i would suggest 10% passive block, 20% block from HS and and a dmg reduction from block + block rating bonus from mastery. Although the dmg reduction part couldnt be too strong.

But honestly, i want my ShoR back, and reckoning would be cool, if it refreshed the cd on ShoR intead of proccing a regular attack, that way you get interactivity and not another low proc attack that gets triggered less and less as your gear improves.

[Ozmademos]

if they are really intent on actually fixing us, i would suggest 10% passive block, 20% block from HS and and a dmg reduction from block + block rating bonus from mastery. Although the dmg reduction part couldnt be too strong.

But honestly, i want my ShoR back, and reckoning would be cool, if it refreshed the cd on ShoR intead of proccing a regular attack, that way you get interactivity and not another low proc attack that gets triggered less and less as your gear improves.

The 2h tanking idea is really growing on me... Holy Shield could stay even! Just make it something to the effect of "You call upon the Light to shield you, reducing the damage taken from the next melee attack by 5% per stack of Holy Power." The trick would be then to make some form of pulling, but the concept of Avenger's Shield could still work. The Holy Bolt mechanic from Sir Zelik could function as a comparable mechanic. Still instant cast with a 30 sec CD and costing mana, "Hurls a bolt of holy magic at the enemy, dealing X to Y Holy damage, then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Affects up to 3 total targets. Generates 1 stack of Holy Power per enemy struck."

[Talen]

The 2h tanking idea is really growing on me... Holy Shield could stay even! Just make it something to the effect of "You call upon the Light to shield you, reducing the damage taken from the next melee attack by 5% per stack of Holy Power." The trick would be then to make some form of pulling, but the concept of Avenger's Shield could still work. The Holy Bolt mechanic from Sir Zelik could function as a comparable mechanic. Still instant cast with a 30 sec CD and costing mana, "Hurls a bolt of holy magic at the enemy, dealing X to Y Holy damage, then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Affects up to 3 total targets. Generates 1 stack of Holy Power per enemy struck."

I think people would miss the Captain America image of Avengers Shield -just ahve it summon a Spectral Shield of Light from the same place Paladins get the hammer for HoW.

The Holy Bolt mechanic could be used in its stead for Blizzard to use -. Single target baseline, multi target Prot talent?

EJL

[Robofish]

Above sounds like holyshock with a specialized chain lightning mechanic.

Maybee changing the "Holy power for each target" too something more like "Imediately generates 3 charges of holy power when used out of combat" for boss pulls and stuff.

[tankytanktank123]

Paladins and warriors will be fun to tank with... I don't see why all this early speculation and debating is necessary, because its going nowhere.

[Ozmademos]

Paladins and warriors will be fun to tank with... I don't see why all this early speculation and debating is necessary, because its going nowhere.

Well, I know the development has pretty much just started... but speculation about the changes is kind of food for though. Intuition pumps, if you will. Understandably, as has been stated a few time before, plenty of changes are still to come. I think the hope is also, even if a small fraction of these forums were read by developers or others "in the know", I'm sure all constructive ideas are at least considered in some fashion.

I'll disgree too that this is "not going nowhere", because plenty of interesting conversation has occured in my opinion.

[Ozmademos]

Protection - Increases your chance to block melee attacks by 16%. Block chance increased further by mastery rating.

Super duper

[Ronark]

It would depend on how much Blocks absorb- Will it be a flat percentage at all levels? Will this percentage raise and fall with gear?

[Nillo]

The ONLY place it will be worse is in content that hits you for less than your current BV. That'd be OLD vanilla content at low levels.

TotgC just saying.
And I highly doubt that block chance and block value will be the same.

[Fichek]

Block value and block chance do not exist in cata. Block lowers incoming dmg by a flat percentage that is equal to your block percentage. And 20k - 7.2k = 12.8k

[Ronark]

Block value and block chance do not exist in cata. Block lowers incoming dmg by a flat percentage that is equal to your block percentage. And 20k - 7.2k = 12.8k

Quoting myself here:

It would depend on how much Blocks absorb- Will it be a flat percentage at all levels? Will this percentage raise and fall with gear?

If Blocking an attack reduces damage by say 30%, you will see an increase in effectiveness against ALL attacks, rather than only low-damaging, weak ones.

[Cardolan]

Block value and block chance do not exist in cata. Block lowers incoming dmg by a flat percentage that is equal to your block percentage. And 20k - 7.2k = 12.8k

Any source for this?

According to this blue post block rating will still exist in Cataclysm, and blocked attacks will have their value reduced by a static 30%. I haven't read anything that contradicts this since, though it's possible I've missed something.