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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by squeeze View Post
    Wah?! Priests (with two healing specs) and shamans (one of the non-dps hybrids, resto druid, was not even brought to the Paragon HLK25 kill but their shaman was key) cannot heal?...I think gherkin's point is very valid. If Blizzard do this, they have definitely crossed a significant role line - sure it may be quietly via a non-healing critical spell, but it would be out there for sure.

    That said, pures would still remain pures as defined by GC's Hybrid Tax post so I guess to them it may be a less significant change.
    When I put together a raid I'm not looking for an Shadow Priest to heal. Hes ranged DPS, just the same as a Warlock or a Mage. Hell, I'm sure my Warlock does a lot more healing per fight thanks to Healthstones.

    My point is that if Blizzard cared about restricting rezes to healers then they would've made it a talent deep in the Holy or Disc trees. SS is, technically, already a rez anyway it just has to be used preemptively.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by gherkin View Post
    They should function like this:
    If you have a soulstone in your inventory when you die, you can use it on yourself.
    If they did this along with the current brez plan I would be very happy with it and would almost forgive the loss of unending breath and detect invis.

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral Devlin1991's Avatar
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    Hybrid tax to me should only be minor like

    20k vs 19k along that lines in bis cataclysm gear. Even in ICC during progression I know a lot of guilds that used An enhancement Shaman or Shadow priest as a 3rd healer in 10mans on fights like marrowgar and Lady deathwisper when they could through out some pretty good healing during those phases and go back to dps once danger was over. This defines a "Hybrid" imo. as a warrior, In the guild I was in when we first killed heroic Putricide 25 I was tanking Putricide as Fury (with shield + Cooldowns) for 1 stack after the first MT in p3 to lengthen the phase allowing us to score a kill before the damage aura was 1 shotting (we had some pretty slacking dps'ers that made enrage fights hard), that also defines "hybrid" and is why imo blizzard need to balance hybrids around that utility. I am rolling a Pure in cata because I'm a meter whore at heart + I hate playing a melee class so Im happy to give up that utility for the extra 5% dps and let players who enjoy being having a bigger supporting role in the raids a chance to fulfil that spot.

    On topic: I like Gherkins idea about the self res being available when the soulstone isn't used. Nice way of handling it. Though I personally think that All forms of Battle res(and all 10min+ base cd's) should not be usable in Battlegrounds just like in Arena I am getting really sick of Locks/shamans Ressing and Killing me off after I just kiled them and are sitting on 5-10% hp. Its cheap and Skill less just like Typhoon, mindcontrol and Thunderstorm on any bg with Cliffs.

  4. #24
    Sounds like a Bres while we're alive, or an Ankh if we're dead. Interesting, and a much needed change; I rarely use my SS as I can't think of a single encounter when it's actually made the difference between a kill and a wipe. Generally been more useful as wipe recovery, but even then not since Naxx given the implementation of Teleporters in Ulduar and ICC. So at the moment, it is pretty inadequate, if I use it on anyone it's usually a tree as a Bres is so useful. It will also give us a much needed aggro wipe if we can keep it to ourselves

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Devlin1991 View Post
    Though I personally think that All forms of Battle res(and all 10min+ base cd's) should not be usable in Battlegrounds just like in Arena I am getting really sick of Locks/shamans Ressing and Killing me off after I just kiled them and are sitting on 5-10% hp.
    Yup, very good idea. I'm surprised this isn't the case already. Half the reason why BG is interesting tactically and skillwise is that you really don't want to die if you can afford it due to the graveyard distance and graveyard camping. This should not be avoidable under any cirumstances if it does not involve skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devlin1991 View Post
    Its cheap and Skill less just like Typhoon, mindcontrol and Thunderstorm on any bg with Cliffs.
    I disagree with this "extrapolation". There is a line between strategic/game-changing class differences, such as a ressurrection ability, and tactical differences which you yourself have said cannot even be used in most/all contexts (I mean how often does a priest ever get to use Mind Control, ffs! ). Whatever niche skills they have, your class should have some they would envy in other situations. It's these seemingly minor differences the game needs in order to keep the choice of class interesting and suited to each person's playstyle and personality. I do not want to play yet another version of the age old "Counter-Strike" or "FPS of your pick" where everyone and everything is exactly the same everywhere at all times and the only difference is who has the better twitch skills or knows the maps best. Now that would make me "sick".
    Last edited by squeeze; 2010-07-29 at 11:30 AM.

  6. #26
    I hope they go through with this as my ESP skills are sadly rather lacking. I don't see the problem with giving another class BRes, especially since they seem to want "Bring the player... blahblah" even more this time.

    Hopefully they may give more abilities the "once per combat" treatment instead of long cooldowns.

    For those thinking about the law, I can see two reasonable descriptions of how it works.

    1) Bridging the gap between body and soul whilst using shadow magic to reconstruct damaged tissue.

    2) Acting as a beacon, drawing the lost soul back to its waiting body.

    And remember, GC said this may happen in addition to the existing use (cast on someone alive = Phylactery, cast on someone dead = BRes). Maybe have it restore a bit less health when BResing, to balance out the Phylactery use.

  7. #27
    Pit Lord Martinussen's Avatar
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    the way it should work is easy.
    1: Lock steals abit of your soul and stores in a soulstone reagent. only one per 15 min or how long it is now
    2: when the guy you stole a little bit of soul from dies you give him the stone.
    3: ress your self .
    "When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsSC2vx7zFQ

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jobdone View Post
    As you can only use 3 shards per fight, wont guild leaders be telling all warlocks to 'save' there shards for battle res.

    And in the end that's all they will be used for..
    Considering the shard requirement has been removed for all but Demon Soul and Soul Burn.

    Mind control and knockbacks are cheap kills, and besides a few select "gimmick" fights they serve little purpose in pve content.
    Unlike soulstones, and battleresses.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2010-07-30 at 02:49 AM.

  9. #29
    I am fine with the way it is now
    of course you can not foresee who will die, but that's the nature of this spell,
    I would rather it remain this way too, may be you can think of it as an insurance
    there are plenty of others that can rez,
    we don't need to make everyone the same

  10. #30
    They arent trying to make every one the same but they are trying to spread the abilities so their is no class with a single must have talent and a BR is a must have talent.

    I expect some other class will get an innervate type ability soon as well.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by herbal tea View Post
    I am fine with the way it is now
    of course you can not foresee who will die, but that's the nature of this spell,
    I would rather it remain this way too, may be you can think of it as an insurance
    there are plenty of others that can rez,
    we don't need to make everyone the same
    By your thinking, warlocks would not have have a soulstone at all.
    Only resto shamans would have a self-res.
    Only resto druids would have a battleres, in fact if based on the "nature" of a spell, then no spec other than a healer would be able to res.
    There would be no engineering methods either.

  12. #32
    They're spreading class talents around a bit more this time round because of the blatant emphasis on 10 man groups where clearly not all buffs would be available at this time. For that reason they will be giving someone else a bres - they've said that this is pretty likely to be Warlocks through Soulstone.

  13. #33
    Nonono, I am not saying that only healer can have brez.
    Soulstone and those battlerez are simply different skills, with different conditions.
    Changing soulstone to those brez is not a good idea because it causes us to lose a unique spell.

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-01 at 10:50 PM ----------

    may be soulburn-soulstone can do the trick.
    But still, I'll insist that soulstone and warlock should keep its uniqueness

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by herbal tea View Post
    Nonono, I am not saying that only healer can have brez.
    Soulstone and those battlerez are simply different skills, with different conditions.
    Changing soulstone to those brez is not a good idea because it causes us to lose a unique spell.

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-01 at 10:50 PM ----------

    may be soulburn-soulstone can do the trick.
    But still, I'll insist that soulstone and warlock should keep its uniqueness
    I don't think you read the original Blizzard post in the OPs post.

    We are also considering (though it's less solid) making Soulstones work more like Rebirth -- you could essentially stone someone after they died and let them rez themselves -- in addition to the way they work currently.
    They have no intention of interfering with how it works now, just adding to it.

  15. #35
    Mechagnome durza's Avatar
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    if they do this ill just use soul stones less then i do already

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by herbal tea View Post
    Nonono, I am not saying that only healer can have brez.
    Soulstone and those battlerez are simply different skills, with different conditions.
    Changing soulstone to those brez is not a good idea because it causes us to lose a unique spell.

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-01 at 10:50 PM ----------

    may be soulburn-soulstone can do the trick.
    But still, I'll insist that soulstone and warlock should keep its uniqueness
    It is a targetable version of the shaman self-res, so has already lost any uniqueness.
    Personally I would appreciate the opportunity to offer something to the raid, which is not reliant on my spec.
    Warlock utility is primarily either demo warlocks, or destruction for the imp and replenishment.

  17. #37
    I think it would be a good change!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by durza View Post
    if they do this ill just use soul stones less then i do already
    Why? Surely stopping dps for 5 seconds to battleres a healer/tank to win the fight is more important than winning the meter on a wipe?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    It is a targetable version of the shaman self-res, so has already lost any uniqueness.
    Personally I would appreciate the opportunity to offer something to the raid, which is not reliant on my spec.
    Warlock utility is primarily either demo warlocks, or destruction for the imp and replenishment.
    The uniqueness is that you need to use it before anybody dies, while All other rez target the victims after they die. Soulstone acts more like an insurance than a cure. By function in raids, It does seem inferior to those target rez, but I don't envy them.

  20. #40
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    For now, in Cataclysm, we are just sharing even more of the buffs and debuffs across a wide gamut, especially very powerful ones like Bloodlust and Battle Rez, and chilling out the impact of some of the more potent ones, say Sunder and Curse of Elements, while also cutting back on the sheer number of buffs brought by say the Ret paladin and Balance druid.
    Sounds like they're still considering it. Hope it goes through.

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