Time to switch to MM?

[sellador]

Hello!

I recently joined one of the better raiding guilds on my server and last night was my first time raiding 25ICC with them. While my dps wasn't terrible, i was still at the bottom of the charts (not something i've experienced in a while, so a bit disheartening).

The other hunters that raided last night were all MM, and awhile ago i had switched from MM back to Surv because I didn't believe my gear was quite ready to be MM. While i wasn't that far behind them in dps during some of the fights, I can't help but wonder if it's time that I too switch to MM so i won't feel like i'm draggin their dps in raids (it's something when 8k+ feels like your draggin' down dps, huh? haha)

Have a looksie and tell me what you guys thing, any and all input is both welcome and appreciated. Thank you in advance!


okay.. i tried to post with my armory link, but mmo won't let me as of right now....
Sorry i can't make this more convient at the moment, but if anyone will take the time to look up Sellador from Bladefist on WoW Armory, i'd really appreciate it. :/ Sorry!

[glo]

No spec change will ever save you from the awful gear choices you made.

Stop using haste gear. (haste is bad)
Stop using the war token. Buy a mirror of truth or greatness card. (lol at gearing for gear score)(haste is bad)
Stop using the t10 pants, buy the t10 helm instead and buy the crafted legs. (haste is bad)
Don't enchant agi on one handed weapons. Use +65 ap.
Don't enchant AP on your boots. Use the agi enchant instead.
OMGWTFBBQ GET HIT CAPPED.

[sabrelime]

Actually I just ran him through the spreadsheet and neither the mirror of truth nor the Dark moon card are upgrades over the War token.

He's only 2 away from the hit cap so it's not really worth to gem for it ep wise.

If your only doing 8k dps though there has to be some other issue, because your spreadsheeted at 10.6k without ICC buffs. Clipping explosive shot ticks when you get lock and load can lose you dps, but not nearly that much.

This is your shot priority per spreadsheet
Rapid Fire
Kill shot
Explosive Shot
Black Arrow
Serpent Sting
Aimed shot
Steady shot

[konishiwa]

Whenever you want, even whidout ArP hard or soft cap is a good spec, for example me as MM i lost over 1.3k dps when i gemmed ArP to reach 1340 ArP from gear/gems (close to 1.4k cap), despite what most people say. You have to see what works for you, i am MM whit agil/crit gems whit a soft cap ArP (trinket plus ArP only from gear stats) and works like a charm, UD 10 man 7/8k dps whit only 2 pieces of T10 and rest 264 gear, not too bad i think.

11/12k on ICC but the buff is a wrong assumption of your true dps.

I tried SV whit my current gear and i do alot less dps as SV, you must have a balance between your gameplay and gear. Pick up the basis as stated in EJ site or WHU and then work your way up.

[sellador]

It's not that i'm intending to use hastegear on purpose, i know haste is bad, but i suppose it came with the other stats that were an upgrade at the time. The blood weeper weapon is just a place holdre until another axe drops / polearm.
& the wartoken is placeholder for WFS or DBW.

So t10 helm > t10 legs, huh. I'll change that once i get the chance and my chants too.

hmm. I don't know if my rotation would contribute to the lack of dps. i use the pretty basic surv rotation. RF>ES>BA>SS>AS>SS rince repeat with KS as a priority when up.

[sabrelime]

This is the same exact issue with ArP and pepople STILL gem ArP and go for the hard cap for MM. Stuttering your movements helps to mitigate losses of auto shots.

Ok 8K dps? When there spreadsheeted to do 10.6 without the 30% buff? Don't you think there is something wrong with that picture? His value of haste is still only 1.5, which hardly seems that high to begin with.

[Huntaer]

Hello!

I recently joined one of the best raiding guilds on my server and last night was my first time raiding 25ICC with them. Granted, most of them are kingslayers and 6k+ gear score,

Stopped reading here.

[glo]

Actually, the only reason why the war token comes ahead of the others is because the spreadsheet overvalues haste by a metric buttload. The spreadsheet assumes that you are standing completely still during the entire fight. When does that ever happen? Haste only affects our auto shot rate once you're down to 1.5 steady shots. This is why haste is a completely worthless stat. Have a look anywhere in stickies to confirm that. (as well as the war token being a terrible trinket for us)

being anything below the hit cap is not acceptable. Imagine if that one missed shot is a serpent sting. You either waste a global reapplying it, or don't notice it for an extended amount of time. Either way, you're losing a ton of dps.

And lastly, no one is able to hit the top of their theoretical max dps. (again with the whole spreadsheet assuming you're standing still the entire fight)

Don't give advice if you don't know what you're talking about.

[sabrelime]

This is the same exact issue with ArP and pepople STILL gem ArP and go for the hard cap for MM. Stuttering your movements helps to mitigate losses of auto shots.

Ok 8K dps? When there spreadsheeted to do 10.6 without the 30% buff? Don't you think there is something wrong with that picture? His value of haste is still only 1.5, which hardly seems that high to begin with.

[Thereign]

As soon as you have a 226 ranged weapon or better, and ~400 arp, MM is better.

[sellador]

Okay, so. aside from what Glo said about switching helm/legs & chants, what else am i doing wrong?

should i go back to useing the Orca Hunters Polearm while i wait for a better polearm to drop? or should i wait for the other frost giant's cleaver to drop and duel weild them?
& so yes? Mirror of Truth would be an ideal trinket?

I stated my rotation in one of the prievious posts, is something wrong with that?

:[ Another possibility to the lack of dps could be lag? i play on a labtop an don't have the best connection all the time.

I really appreciate everyones help.

[konishiwa]

Ok, first of all dont get rid of any of the tier pieces you have, they make you get the 2 bonuses from it, comparing whit the rest you have is very good.

Second, if you have haste in gear dropped, but that piece of gear have the raw values (Agil for example) far more superior then the one you have, roll for it if you can, Agil scales whit percent buffs like Kings or ICC buff, Agil gives AP and Crit, dont just go dump haste gear because it have haste, if you cant get the gear you want but that piece of gear whit haste is far more superior in raw stats, go for it.

Hit rating, as stated already, most important stat to cap at end game, 263, either by gemming or put a point in Focused Aim.

Another thing, what the heck is that agil plus mana per 5 gem?! If you need a gem to make the meta gem bonus use a prismatic ALWAYS, +10 all stats, my god, get rid of that gem asap.

Change the 1H weapons for a staff or polearm when you can, 2H weapons have far more superior stats then 2x1H in most cases, you dont need the melee damage, you shoot people, you dont spank whit your hands.

Boot enchant, 15 stamina and minor run, believe me, will save your butt, equaly important then shoot stuff is not to die or waiste time running, if you can reach over there faster is more time doing your shot priority.

As SV you are less penalized from moving and shooting since Steady Shot is used when you dont have anything else off CD, MM requires more movement awareness, less special shots to fire means more time in steady, learn how to calculate when you gonna move, use arcane shot for example when you move and dont have anything else off CD, its one more damage shot to fill the gap, macro your shots will help also, theres a good macro guide in youtube by Kripparrian.

But you have to read and search for info, EJ site or WHU site is good, if you dont want to read means you dont want to improve and just want a onebuttonwin, and that ended in TBC lol.

My 2 cents

Forgot gemming, when you have at least +6 agil from gem bonus and its yellow and you dont need hit, go for 10 agil+crit, rest that is not for make the meta bonus gem agil all the way, agil gives crit but crit rating is far superior in crit percentage, doesnt scale like Agil but the 4 agil you loose is barable for the crit rating, SV needs Lock'n'Load roling all the time.

Dont worry about MM for now, fix what you have, then move to soft ArP and a MM spec, Needle trinket plus 722 ArP from gear ONLY to when Needle procs you reach the ArP cap, but then again pass your gear by the spreadsheet already fixed and whit a MM spec, and see if you loose or gain dps, remember that MM you have to move very very good for not loosing time whit shot priority.

And loose the Herkuml trinket as stated already above.

[Dran]

Spec for being Survival: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cxoZ0e...0cIhgdqhsz:Aib
Kill Shot when available - Explosive Shot - Black Arrow - Multi Shot - Serpent Sting - Steady Shot. MS and AiS share cooldown and aren't such a difference to lose the other points for.

(haste is bad)

Very, very bad. As said 4p plus non-set legs. Deathwhisper legs are near-identical so crafted or that. Whispering Fanged Skull, Death's Verdict, Greatness Card or Banner of Victory even, just change the trinket. Get the Valithra ring, Festergut or Princes 10 belt, Sindra 10/25 neck, then respec Mazragora's 7/57/7 MM spec anyway (first Hunter in your guild I could find that actually looks to be raiding and has the right spec) to have 3/3 Focused Aim and slightly better scaling anyway. Difference between the two isn't huge but MM still comes out benefitting gear better.

Put a Nightmare Tear in the blue of your chest, gem everything else +20 Red, that agi/mp5 gem makes me boggle especially when you get AP from stamina, but t10 socket bonuses are so lackluster the only considerable ones are on a red socket (or the NT in chest) anyway. Some enchants need fixed and Ocra polearm will likely be better till you can get a 264/277 ArP 1h from Gunship or Valithra assuming no melee still want it, then dual-wielding with +65 AP would be okay. Little less being dazzled by common things like Kingslayer that any 'better on the server' guild pushes over weekly for loot no one needs and using gearscore as a guide for actual raiding guilds rather than stupid pugs and more research like this will go a long way.

[Karism]

Okay, i've not read the others post, but here is what i think..
In the start, fuck peeps gs 'Most peeps have +6k gs And have Kingslayer' wtf does that have to do with everything?

But anyway.

I'll start with ur proffessions. Enchanting, sure that is okay. But why the hell have you choosen Tailoring? to get a flying carpet?.. You should remove that, and level up Jewelcrafting, which is the best proffesion. If you got the money for it, i would delete enchanting aswell and choose BS. BS + JC is the combe of proffesions which gives you the biggest stats upgrade.

gear:
You should start changing ur pants with the one that can bé craftet from ICC & Buy the t10 head instead which is way better. While we're on this why do you have all that hit? You are 2% over the hitcap. Instead of all that hit, you should think about changing your hitgear with gear which have the stats arp/ap/crit. 287 haste? wuut? Thats like 287 to much :-). U should really replace your Herkulm trinket with, ye w/e u can get. Deaths Verdict, Wispering fanged skull, DBW og the new one from RS25. You should change your neck aswell to an arp neck. from Yea, even the 245 from togc10 is even better than that. Else Sindragosa drops a pretty awesome neck on both 10/25. I would go for one of those.


I'm pretty sure, going MM with the gear you have atm will be a DPS increase. no doubt.

You say u pull 8k atm? there must really be some stuff wrong there, u should be able to push, yea, +11k with the gear in icc. Are u thinking about how many autoshoots u are getting on every encounter? You have to stand still all the time possible, When you're moving, try to stand still when you're firing auto-shots, so you get as many as possible. Try only to move when Chimera + Aimed is off CD, so u can run and shoot etc.


.. Dno what else to say atm.

[sellador]

Thank you guys for the input.

Clearly my gear was much more effed up then i thought. >.< oh well, good thing i asked because now i know what i've been doing wrong and can work to correct it.

I'm getting right on fixing everything that i can atm.
Thanks everyone. :]

[mööh]

Spec for being Survival: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cxoZ0e...0cIhgdqhsz:Aib
Kill Shot when available - Explosive Shot - Black Arrow - Multi Shot - Serpent Sting - Steady Shot. MS and AiS share cooldown and aren't such a difference to lose the other points for.



Very, very bad. As said 4p plus non-set legs. Deathwhisper legs are near-identical so crafted or that. Whispering Fanged Skull, Death's Verdict, Greatness Card or Banner of Victory even, just change the trinket. Get the Valithra ring, Festergut or Princes 10 belt, Sindra 10/25 neck, then respec Mazragora's 7/57/7 MM spec anyway (first Hunter in your guild I could find that actually looks to be raiding and has the right spec) to have 3/3 Focused Aim and slightly better scaling anyway. Difference between the two isn't huge but MM still comes out benefitting gear better.

Put a Nightmare Tear in the blue of your chest, gem everything else +20 Red, that agi/mp5 gem makes me boggle especially when you get AP from stamina, but t10 socket bonuses are so lackluster the only considerable ones are on a red socket (or the NT in chest) anyway. Some enchants need fixed and Ocra polearm will likely be better till you can get a 264/277 ArP 1h from Gunship or Valithra assuming no melee still want it, then dual-wielding with +65 AP would be okay. Little less being dazzled by common things like Kingslayer that any 'better on the server' guild pushes over weekly for loot no one needs and using gearscore as a guide for actual raiding guilds rather than stupid pugs and more research like this will go a long way.

dude....that spec is so wrong i don't know where to start. i can tell you this. Glyph of explosive shot and aimed shot and remove the BM talents and put them in survival. I would go with something like this http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cZ0eVo...0cIhekAhsk:AiN. You want aimed shot because of sniper training and because it's instant.

[Skybluesky]

Mooh, the spec you posted was ok, but still a bit problematic. You put 2 points in Rapid Killing -- that is not worth it for SV; it only shines when used in conjunction with Readiness for MM. 3 points in Resourcefulness is also a waste (the info on this can be found at ej). As for where to put those talent points, and how to glyph -- you should check femaledwarf for this.

[glo]

dude....that spec is so wrong i don't know where to start. i can tell you this. Glyph of explosive shot and aimed shot and remove the BM talents and put them in survival. I would go with something like this ------ . You want aimed shot because of sniper training and because it's instant.

Actually, you're completely wrong. The spec and glyphs he linked is currently the highest dps survival spec out there. Unfortunately I cannot post links here yet, but a simple look at the EJ spreadsheet post will show you that everything you replied with was complete nonsense.

Learn the class and mechanics before you give terrible advice please.

[Darios]

If you're gemming right and have decent gear MM is usually the way to go for PVE

[Ferledon]

You know how annoying it is when I hear people say "GET THIS NAO! OMG YOUR DOING IT WRONG!!"
Its a pain waiting for that piece of gear you want to drop, and to also hope no one else wins it as well.
Such as, I've been using a Banner of Victory for the past 4 months, up until last night when my DBW finally dropped and I had the DKP to grab it.

If you wish to look, my hunter is Grandpappy on Wildhammer.

---------- Post added 2010-07-29 at 05:59 PM ----------

For the sake of contributing tho, allow me to add, since your a tailor you should chant your cloak w/the tailoring embroidery. Going to MM would be worth checking out. Since you have so much hit, you should put 3/3 into improved Hunter's mark, and not Focused Aim, should you try out MM.