Moonkin Form in Cata

[Tiolith]

I can't be the only one concerned about the fact that Moonkins can't mount?

[Archimand]

not sure if anyone said it yet but the reason they changed the form bonus to 5% haste is cus they merge the 5% crit buffs into a overall crit buff so it will be stupid to make balance and feral provide 5% crit

[Deleted]

What if they removed moonkin form itself, but made the druid evolve depending on their spec, a bit like Malfurion has, but weaker(considering Malfurion is the most powerful druid), so a balance druid would grow antlers, a feral druid would gain animal-like claws and feet and resto would have twigs/vines forming around their arms and legs.

[Slavemaker]

I think you're trolling.

Go away.

The way that he is typing and talking, he is clearly trolling.

[Niter]

You're in the wrong game then. Blizzard builds the Lore around the game, not the other way around.
Gameplay always takes precedence over lore and Blizz isn't above changing the lore to fit the game, if necessary.

That is why I said I do not like stuff like that and I would like it to be different. Do I hate Moonkin Form? Hell no, but it is inconsistent with lore and I like lore. That is just it. Some people think like me, some do not. No problem at all. The game will not suck because of that, but it is an aspect that I dislike and I would love to see it being changed. It is one reason among others.

Moonkin form

Some of us are perfectly fine with being a giant chicken. Some arent. Thats fine as well. But calling out for a removal of moonkin form becuase it "doesn't fit lore" is an argument thats begging to be brought back to the stoneage. "We aren't supposed to be able to kill <boss>, he's an immortal". Well, suprise suprise, we just happened to manage to pull it off anyways, I guess we're just that strong. Lore changes, new things gets created. Is it so unrealistic that somewhere along the lines, druids learned to harness the power of the owlkins? Probably not. After all, its a game - we can make things up as we go along

I see those things differently. First, bosses are really powerful and all, but almost all of them needed minions or tricked others to be a big menace. Also, whenever we kill any character that is important in lore, the story is advancing and it is quite nice. Malygos dying, for instance, was done in a great way. The players alone would have been killed by the Aspect. What about killing Yogg? Again, a lot of help was provided there. The story moved on, and I think it is nice it does.

However, when it comes to Moonkin Form, it is an entirely different story. They could implement a quest to explain that (and no, that one in Winterspring is not it), they should do something. If they changed that, I could think it is silly, but it is not just to add flavour to a spec that was not played not because Balance Druids lacked a form, but because they lacked depth and were quite weak.

Like I said, it is an aspect of the game that can be improved.

They can only do straight heals, which is nothing compared to what a druid could do with, rejuv regrowth and lifebloom HoTs on at the same time.At the end of the day if you don't like moonkin form, dont spec into it,,,and enjoy your crap dps.

First, it is not exactly comparable. Chain Heal is a great spell and it is powerful enough to make a difference. Elemental Shamans could easily Chain Heal if the 'main healer' has a problem, is CC'd or something along those lines. A Balance Druid can only use Tranquility, which is situational and generates a lot of threat. It is also a very expensive spell.

What about the direct heals? Back in TBC Restokins were nice to play and Healing Touch was the spell of choice for many. Elemental Shamans do not waste mana shifting out and then back (which happens to affect us twice, because shifting costs mana and Furor is not there all the time). Elemental Shamans do not reduce their spellpower to heal when they have to. They also got two nice pets to help them if needed, so they can keep doing some (low) DPS or add a meat shield if necessary. Balance Druids lose even more, since they could keep casting their DoTs while healing, but they give up a nice amount of spellpower that could help their DoTs/Starfall.

It is a major disadvantage. And let's not talk about using Moonkin Form in PvP. It gets a target above your head instantly.

You like the form, it is okay, but that is it. Saying that if it did not exist it would not help our utility is just wrong. I cannot even remember how many times I had to step up and heal in a pinch, both in PvE and PvP. It would be great to be able to keep healing without giving up any possible DPS that I could do.

The way I see it, they could let the Moonkin Form talent give the bonuses regardless of being in Moonkin Form or not. Being in Moonkin would grant more armour and that is all. Use it if you want it and need the armour bonus.

Not making it mandatory is the simplest solution they have.

[ELEDIN]

Exactly!! Ele shamans can raid heal in some dificult situtations spaming chain heal without losing anything. Enhasment shamans maybe they havent so big mana pools but they can heal with instant heal every maelstorm proc and they have nice amount of spellpower to help also raid healing with instant chain heals.I have seen both of the specs to help alot on raid healing in some dificult fights.
Shadow priests and paladins they also have ways to heal the raid and espesially themselfs without even using healing spells,(Vampiric embrace, divine storm , jugment of the light, instant flash of light....) Have you ever play a shadow priest with improve VE? let me tell you when i play mine with the improve Ve on pve i can never die, i can stand on fires without anoy any healer, i feel like god with my shadow priest with my self healing i never based on a healer to keep me up, and my damage is super high. the only way a shadow priest can die in pve is over aggro and you dont have the cd of dispersion.

About the lore, some said said they change the lore cause the game. thats a big lie.
They change some things about bosses they continue history on wow but they always have a reason to explain that.
We are the only spec from every other class and spec in the game that we have no reason to use moonkin form a melee creature to be better spellcaster and prevent us from healing when some npc moonkins can cast rejuvanation.
When they introduce moonkin form it have some extra unique abilities that at least fit the moonkin lore (mana on auto attack , extra attack power) till the end of bc. in wrath of the lich king they change our mana on autoatack and they make it on every single spell crit cause they realized that we cant melee and we are spellcasters instead of just change moonkin.
Moonkin form in a druid spec wright now doent fit neither moonkin lore that they want them melee creature with some spells(including healing spells) neither druid lore as spellcasters that they dont need a form at all. Find me at least one other class that have the same problem with us with their lore and their history.

About game moonkin form are the easiest targets on pvp are also the worst grafics from evey other thing in the game, and they force us to use see this form for many hours when we raid. in pvp we arent fame so much for our survaviliability they can kill us with hots and without them.

The only thing i sugest is at least if they want us to use form on balance spec to use another form that support druid as spellcaster or at least some glyphs that change our apearance. if not just remove that form please i think its time to make us more druids

[huth]

About the lore, some said said they change the lore cause the game. thats a big lie.

Nope, they actually openly admitted it several times. If game mechanics demand it, lore can go to hell.

Besides, having druids that see the Owlkin totem as their primary and them, being a favorite of Elune, having a positive influence on the stellar side of their repertoire, isn't all that far off.
As the origin of the worgen showed, there are still druids following totems we don't know about.

Find me at least one other class that have the same problem with us with their lore and their history.

Tauren druids did not even exist prior to WoW. Blood elven paladins, were only created so they had horde paladins with lore that barely made sense.
Warlocks in the Alliance running around more or less in the open. If that wasn't so impractical for playing the game, running around SW or IF with your demon out should net you an execution.

[ELEDIN]

Nope, they actually openly admitted it several times. If game mechanics demand it, lore can go to hell.

Besides, having druids that see the Owlkin totem as their primary and them, being a favorite of Elune, having a positive influence on the stellar side of their repertoire, isn't all that far off.
As the origin of the worgen showed, there are still druids following totems we don't know about.


Tauren druids did not even exist prior to WoW. Blood elven paladins, were only created so they had horde paladins with lore that barely made sense.
Warlocks in the Alliance running around more or less in the open. If that wasn't so impractical for playing the game, running around SW or IF with your demon out should net you an execution.

They have tons of explanation about tauren druids and belf paladins(if you go to wowwiki you will find all of this explanations for the lore)
Monkins have their conection with elune and druids believe that they are protector of the nature but they never gave an explanation why balance druids have to take the form of a melee creature to be a better spellcater.
For everything they change they gave explanation to create a whole story and backround behind that exept Moonkin form on druids.
Warlocks have also an explanation for cooperating with alliance. About demons yes they should be execute to runing around with demons but that is something that doesnt affect your gameplay at all, they only make warlock s life easier with this they dont have to dismiss and resummon they demons when they have to visit a big town.
Warlock also have the choise of not use demons on towns without losing anything at all.

Balance druids have no choise to dont take that form and dont use it if they want maximum dps. If we choose to dont use moonkin form we will lose a lot of dps so our choises are limited. We have no backround about that and not explanation not even a choise.

[Kryos]

You are trying to get the class changed so that you like it better. And you're not even doing it in the right place.
Moonkin is iconic for the majority of players(not just druids), which you obviously do not belong to.

I'm a Moonkin player and I would not mind having Owlkin form just like Warlock or Cata Resto Druid just as a temporary buff.
Or they should change the mooonkin in a way I can see my gear. My Endgame moonkin looks the same like a "ding just level 60" boomkin and that sucks. It's like having a race car that looks like a VW Beetle.

---------- Post added 2010-08-03 at 11:32 AM ----------

I can write that: Moonkin is iconic Clown and Joke for the majority of players (not just druids and not just players of wow).

sad but truth. Blizzard does not take moonkin serious themself. Look at the dance. It's the fatty dance from the drunken Ogre in Dire Maul.


The WoW lore says Wild/Owl/Moonkins are sacred, holy, immortal powerful forces for good. The priests of Elune see the wildkin as imbued with the spirit and strength of the Moon Goddess, and the druids see them as guardians and protectors of nature. Night elves consider the shimmering pelts and golden eyes of the wildkin to be beautiful.

Sounds like some fat chicken doing a silly dance? It's about time Blizzard is changing the Moonkin look.

[Mewseph]

Moonkin form in and of itself is fine.

The probably originates with the fact that changing INTO a form is on the GLOBAL cool down. If it had a seperate cooldown shared with all other forms (much like Aspects for hunters or Stances for warriors) then much of the disadvantages would be marginalised, especially for PvP, but still maintains that "You're a specialised DPS caster, so your healing capabilities get penalised".

As a thought on the form itself; It needs a cosmetic change but it's no different to Shadow form, which is bad ass. The what needs to happen (imo) is that the spec needs to be less dependent on being in form to be the most effective in almost all situations.

I wouldn't be against giving MKN form the ToL treatment; A DPS cool down. It'd fill a hole in the spec and give the spec a less gimmicky feel.

[Morning_star]

Blizzard has always said that druids are the class of shapeshifting. Also said that the shapeshifting aspect would have been implemented in the future, and the step back with tree of life form changes this intent. So at this point i'd make every form as a cooldown to improve the spells/abilities. It would be nice also see some variety like the cats have between the druid caster forms instead of the flat alliance/horde moonkin form.
Last, i think the lore is really important for a game, wow is too much focused actually on gear, mechanics, stats than scenario, and that makes it boring while not raiding. Watching back at vanilla lore the game was really more attractive for me, and i'm nostalgic of teldrassil starting zone, specially comparing it to the flat wotlk zones.

[Leftineus]

I played balance and resto pre-BC. We didn't have either of those disgusting forms then and we don't want them now.

Didn't have Moonkin, pre-BC? I would beg to differ. Moonkin form was added in Patch 1.8 october 10th 2005.
The game was released November 23rd 2004. The Burning Crusade was released January 17th 2007. Thats almost 2 years of moonkin form pre-BC. The game only existed for 11 months WITHOUT moonkin form.

I would say something that has been around that long is iconic for those of use who have played moonkin since it was released.

[Deleted]

Blizzard has always said that druids are the class of shapeshifting. Also said that the shapeshifting aspect would have been implemented in the future, and the step back with tree of life form changes this intent. So at this point i'd make every form as a cooldown to improve the spells/abilities.

^^This.

While I disagree somewhat with ferals losing their Forms since they really are Forms rather than just shapeshifts (i.e. Blizzard would only be forced to replace them with something similar such as Stances), your view is more consistent than the current state of affairs.

Didn't have Moonkin, pre-BC? I would beg to differ. Moonkin form was added in Patch 1.8 october 10th 2005.
The game was released November 23rd 2004. The Burning Crusade was released January 17th 2007. Thats almost 2 years of moonkin form pre-BC. The game only existed for 11 months WITHOUT moonkin form.

I would say something that has been around that long is iconic for those of use who have played moonkin since it was released.

Useful facts. Thank you.

However, "iconic" and "lore" have been proven repeatedly (and definitely not just for the druid class) to be quite irrelevant to Blizzard when it comes to gameplay design. Playing a Tree for years and the size of the Tree community (much larger than Moonkin outside of the game itself) didn't seem to have any impact whatsoever on Blizzard's decision to remove the shapeshift.

If ToL shapeshift can be removed so readily after years (they didn't even guarantee a shapeshift minor glyph!), then for identical reasons Moonkin shapeshift has to go.

[Niter]

Didn't have Moonkin, pre-BC? I would beg to differ. Moonkin form was added in Patch 1.8 october 10th 2005.
The game was released November 23rd 2004. The Burning Crusade was released January 17th 2007. Thats almost 2 years of moonkin form pre-BC. The game only existed for 11 months WITHOUT moonkin form.

But there is catch! When ToL was first implemented, it was far from useful. As a matter of fact, it was not viable until people got past Kara. Before that, it was a form that would rarely be used. ToL got popular in WotLK. Before that it was just like a 'perk'. Moonkin has been in the game for a long time, but before WotLK it was not exactly viable. That means it is iconic to those who love Balance Druids AND liked the form. Removing ToL was a bold action from Blizzard. Taking Moonkin Form away would be a lot easier.

It is my belief that Starfires with their huge hits, Moonfire spam and now Starfall are more iconic than Moonkin Form ever was. Even Eclipse right now has its own UI. I guess we can live without Moonkin Form just fine. And for those who just absolutely love the form and cannot live without it, it is easy to fix by adding a minor glyph. This way the form is not mandatory any more. I would be glad to not lose SP, Haste, waste Mana, etc when trying to help the healers, Brezzing somebody, flying to the enemy ship and so on. Especially with our DoTs updating their own damage in case something procs and things like that, it would be fun to be able to properly support a party without diminishing our damage even further.

Nope, they actually openly admitted it several times. If game mechanics demand it, lore can go to hell

That does not mean it is right or that it should be like that. I do not support things done that way and I am not the only one.

To be honest, one of the few things I miss from Vanilla is that Druids liked Druidism. They were proud of the class as a whole and it was much better back then. Maybe that happened because we were the underdogs. Now a lot of people say "I rolled a Druid because of this form or that form", some just wanted the power and easy gameplay Resto Druids have, others rolled Feral Cats because they wanted a challenging 'rotation'... I will not say that their opinions are less important, but I will definitely favour more lore/RP centric opinions when it comes to flavour and feel. Mechanics are a different story, though.

[huth]

If ToL shapeshift can be removed so readily after years (they didn't even guarantee a shapeshift minor glyph!), then for identical reasons Moonkin shapeshift has to go.

Blizzard also said that the reasons for ToL redesign do not apply to Moonkin Form.

That does not mean it is right or that it should be like that. I do not support things done that way and I am not the only one.

It does make sense from a development PoV. Heck, they don't even have a choice if they want some semblance of interclass balance.
Or any other parts of the game halfway playable.

In lore, the world of Azeroth is easily more than ten times as large as what you can see in WoW. Were the game in realistic proportions, we would barely have more zones than Elwynn and Durotar.
And those are just some very obvious examples, there are hundreds of minor issues.

To be honest, one of the few things I miss from Vanilla is that Druids liked Druidism. They were proud of the class as a whole and it was much better back then.

So? I remember people rolling druids for Innervate and healing back then. And that was pretty much it for, i dunno, 90% or so. And i've been on a RP server since the start. Try looking back at the past without those rose tinted nostalgia glasses, classic was pretty crappy for druids of any type, especially those that did not like resto or healing in general.
I've raided as a mage for most of classic simply because there was no point in playing a balance druid. I haven't used that mage as my main ever since BC was released and moonkin became valuable enough to justify the raid spot.(And cause pretty much every caster in the raid to request to be placed in my subgroup...)