Concerned about healing priest

[Fenixdown]

Well the class which is changed the last can NEVER test as long as the other classes thats a mathematical fact :-)

I'm confused by people that keep saying this. Do you think they're not going to get to us until a week before launch and say "oh well! hope things work out for you guys"?

Cataclysm isn't expected until the earliest November. It's just going to be August tomorrow. That means that, at the very least, there's still 3 months of testing to do. Even if they don't get to us until September, that's two whole months of testing. If you're trying to say that two months isn't enough, then I wonder what you as a beta tester are doing in the first place.

There's loads of time. They'll get to us when they get to us, and we'll have plenty of time to work out all the kinks and bugs before launch. Patience. Search for it on eBay and get as much as you can buy for cheap. Please.

[Deleted]

I'm confused by people that keep saying this. Do you think they're not going to get to us until a week before launch and say "oh well! hope things work out for you guys"?

Cataclysm isn't expected until the earliest November. It's just going to be August tomorrow. That means that, at the very least, there's still 3 months of testing to do. Even if they don't get to us until September, that's two whole months of testing. If you're trying to say that two months isn't enough, then I wonder what you as a beta tester are doing in the first place.

There's loads of time. They'll get to us when they get to us, and we'll have plenty of time to work out all the kinks and bugs before launch. Patience. Search for it on eBay and get as much as you can buy for cheap. Please.

Funny you are so optimistic, when history shows that in the PAST betas despite the incredible feedback on how broken certain things for priests were, NOTHING has been done for almost a YEAR AFTER release.
Problem is that, in the past priests almost always got looked at last, and therefore turned out to be pretty broken until many patches after the release.
If your class got shafted so many times its no wonder people get pessimistic and suspicious

[Tiberria]

If you are holy and raid healing, especially in ICC, and not casting renew 3x in a row, you are doing something wrong. Renew is a very strong spell, the renew chakra would make it worth picking up that talent. SoL procs are only used for building up Serendipity for something like LK's infest for Prayer of Healing. You can get out at least 8-10 renews in the CD of PoM and 5 while CoH is on CD. On some fights, renew spamming is as good, if not better than casting CoH on CD.

8-10 renews during the cooldown of PoM is an exaggeration. PoM is a 7 second cooldown with Divine Providence. The maximum amount of renews you can get out between PoM cooldowns is 6, and that's soft haste capped at 1259+ haste, and assuming no leeway for user lag, server lag or reaction time.

[Deleted]

So SoL will definitely not be changed back to Flash Heal? In that case I think I have 2 additional talent points to spend. Sure, mana free instant Smite and a mana free Holy Nova are cool... but other things are cooler.

Mana free instant smite, at least for me, translates into mana free instant evangelism stack.. Which makes me to spec at least 1/2 SoL

[Kelesti]

8-10 renews during the cooldown of PoM is an exaggeration. PoM is a 7 second cooldown with Divine Providence. The maximum amount of renews you can get out between PoM cooldowns is 6, and that's soft haste capped at 1259+ haste, and assuming no leeway for user lag, server lag or reaction time.

Yet, you spec into 10% stronger Mendings (Divine Providence), and you're only using on average 60% of the spell.

The shorter cooldown is great for tank healing/support. But as a raid healing spell, especially on an aura fight, let it use its 5 charges.

[Skoomapipe]

I'm worried, Why am I worried?
Every time there is a new beta build there are changes to almost every class, including priests. But not since the very first preview of the talents (Chakra system et al) has there been anything but the most minor of updates for the holy tree.

I think most priests would agree that trying to cast PoH 3 times in a row at a 2.5ish second cast time every 20 seconds just to make CoH work as it should is not going to be a fun way to play. Nor is being consigned to renew spamming.

So I'd say that the idea in its' current implementation is a little bad (IMO, feel free to chastise me if I'm wrong)

What worries me is it's lack of progress,
Now. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a beta, it could be on the dev team's 'to-do' list. but you'll have to forgive me if I don't like the idea of the holy tree being an afterthought.

Please, correct me, placate my fears and reservations. Make me love Cata-holy as I have done in LK

[Frmercury]

GC fairly recently said that they wanted Chakra to be a spec defining ability that made you want to play a Holy Priest and be very fun: but that it wasn't there yet. They also left off the Lightwell discussion with a statement that they were working on it. They have made consistent minor tweaks to Holy as well throughout the Alpha / Beta process. I really don't think you have to worry about not getting worked on and have a great end result for Holy.

[Danner]

I'm not really worried about a lack of holy news. It just means that they need to think more about holypriests. And that is a very correct move if you ask me. The current chakra design goes against everything a holypriest stands for, lightwell is universally loathed, spirit of redemption is only taken for the 5% spirit, and our spec-defining ability is a self-only holy shock with a 8x longer cooldown that might be talented into becoming binding heal. Almost all holy's talent points are boring +healing boosters, and most of them only affect a single heal - something which doesn't sit well in a spec taking pride in using the entirety of its available toolbox (except lightwell).

There is a lot to look into, to be honest. And I'm all in favour of the devteam taking their time getting this right. Because the next chance to get it right is around patch 4.1, due may-ish 2011.

[Melonberry]

What other healer got new stuff? Holy got holy power. Shamans can use fail LBs to refill a little mana. Druids got nothing. Both priests got a whole hell of a lot of stuff, way more than the other healers.

[Deleted]

Holy got holy power.

lol? holy paladin got 2 AoE heals (cone of heal and healing hands), got holy power, got world of glory, got spirit -> hit, got cheap beacon, got buffed illumination (now works on every spells) , got exorcism with denounce talent for get mana back, got a body & soul... what the fack do u want more?

Shamans can use fail LBs to refill a little mana.

shaman got healing rain, unleash element and CAST WHILE MOVING

Druids got nothing.

resto druid got an AoE proc, a healing cooldown

Both priests got a whole hell of a lot of stuff, way more than the other healers.

With a lot of stuff you mean archangel and fail-chakra? lol

[Skoomapipe]

Agreed. Priests have got:
1. A griefing tool which probably won't make it past beta
2. A PvP talent which, if used in PvE would deliberately make us irresponsible healers
and 3. A system wherein holy priests are made to play in a way that goes against every aspect of the way we like to play, and blizzard has said they like us playing. A system that cannot even be specced around.

[KnickKnack]

Disc got 4 new abilities all of which are awesome!!
Power Word Barrier, Evangelism, Archangel and Atonement.
Before you knock Atonement keep in mind the current numbers show it as a 3,500-6,500 AoE Heal that allows you to use Archangel,

Holy and Shadow will still have access to evangelism/archangel, which kinda ticks me off that disc gets the shorter end of the stick. So really, we only get 2 abilities. Bring back discipline's increased mana, I DEMAND IT.

[nevermore]

Yeah Disc got Power Word: Barrier and if you want to count it then Atonement as well. So far Holy got, uh, ummmm... yeah.
Not to mention that technically Disc has 1 extra talent point, because they get Penance which they would've picked anyway, while Holy gets Desperate Prayer which I certainly wouldn't pick with the scarce amount of talent points available.

[Cloud92684]

Not sure why everyone is down on chakra, I'm happy to see a talent that changes and help me excel at whatever task given to me. If you raided in vanilla, it was all about downrank heals for high hpm especially as a tank healer which the heal portion of chakra helps. In movement and more group healing environments, the renew portion of chakra will be an awesome way to group heal and now that hots won't give the stronger effect recast prevention, renews can be used as a emergency instant cast small heal via empowered healing. The only concern is the prayer of healing effect as it is still expensive, still slow, and still party locked (afaik). It would only really be useful in a stand still fight with lots of aoe damage.

The more pressing concerns are:

1) Lightwell being more viable
2) Our "signature" spell desperate prayer being unimpressive and needing to be tied to a bad holy talent to be better
3) Flash heals removal from surge of light
4) Deliverance, cast expensive spells for faster cast expensive spells. (Also 3 points for it?)

The concern that other classes are getting more to their arsenal of spells compared to us is not as important to me since unlike other classes, we do have a large cadre of spells at our disposal already and I think I would feel a bit overwhelmed if we were to get even more spells. Currently I mostly use renew, fh, gh, pom, pws, poh, gs, and situationally binding heal. Now we're adding in heal, desperate prayer, and holy nova more into our regular list of spells and most likely archangel as well. I'm thinking I'm going to need a new mouse with more buttons.

[Deleted]

Tbh i am pretty pissed by the way blizzard handles healer balance.
Paladins are way overpowerd in utility, buffs st AND aoe healing AND absorbs as it is now.
I cant really see why a raid should invite priests instead of a pala to a raid, a priest offers absolutely nothing a pala cant do better as it stands now.

[Danner]

Not sure why everyone is down on chakra, I'm happy to see a talent that changes and help me excel at whatever task given to me.

Ah, but the devil is in the balancing. You are not allowed to be more powerful than the other healers. You are not allowed to out-hot a druid, out-shield a discpriest, out-aoeheal a shaman or out-tankheal a paladin. Which means that while in a chakra state, you will be slightly less powerful than a druid or shaman outside of chakra state. Otherwise, why would you ever bring a druid or shaman if a holypriest can fill every role better than the specialized healers?

Being the jack-of-all-trades healer is already a sort of bummer. But as long as we have chakra, it's basically lowering our ability to use an off-chakra heal. It's a limiter, not a booster. A shaman is perfectly able to switch between a tankheal and a raidheal on the fly. A chakra-limited holypriest is not really able to.

--

If you ask me, the biggest problems with chakra is that it is pigeonholing us into one-spell spammers. Every healer in cataclysm is being told that they will play more like the holypriest, use their entire arsenal and feel good when chosing the correct spell for the correct situation. Holypriests are being told to stop doing just that, and instead spam a single button over and over. You may chose which button, but you can only chose one.

The only way chakra is not destroying our ability to use off-chakra spells is if chakra is so weak that being in a state simply doesn't matter. That's basically the state of chakra right now.

Either way - the design is flawed.

[Calsong]

I believe the disc priest and the holy priest, coming out of WotLK, were both at a pretty decent place.

What's changing? Holy, being one of the most situationally adaptable healing specs (if not THE most) is gaining more adaptability. Becoming the jack-of-all-trades healer is some that I'm personally very excited about. Don't minimize talents that have a tangible affect on playstyle.

Disc, if anything, is getting some significant love. The much anticipated inclusion of PW:Barrier adds another long cooldown to an already impressive toolbox of utility, and the mastery bonus of absorption adds to the already unique and powerful absorption healing style.

Yes, I want some more love. We all do. That said, I don't feel like we're getting "the shaft."

[Danner]

I believe the disc priest and the holy priest, coming out of WotLK, were both at a pretty decent place.

I am not quite in agreement on this one.

Disc is reduced to bubblespamming at the end of WOTLK. While this is powerful, it's not really fun to be a one trick pony.

Holy is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none specc. It's a spec that's not really great at anything, while being able to fill in most every gap. It's main strengths is not obvious until everyone severely overgears the content. It's not fun to be virtually useless until you get there, and I still wouldn't trust a holypriest on the tank, ever. There are quite a few panthenons that have recieved curses from holypriests being unable to do their job in WoTLK. While we're good now that everyone is in 277's and a +30% ICC buff, that's not really saying a lot.

What's changing? Holy, being one of the most situationally adaptable healing specs (if not THE most) is gaining more adaptability. Becoming the jack-of-all-trades healer is some that I'm personally very excited about. Don't minimize talents that have a tangible affect on playstyle.

I totally agree on holy being a versatile specc, but it's a bit though being unable to tankheal yourself out of a paper bag unless both you and the tank is clad in 277's. This is definitively changing in cataclysm with all the required tankhealing talents showing up earlier in the talent tree. It's one of the major things I am absolutely excited about. I do miss being able to tankheal.

But trust me, it's not really fun to be the grout. You are the first healer to go if there are harder DPS checks. You have to constantly defend your lower meter placement in pugs against raidleaders that don't know better. You have to convince both yourself and others that you can still do the job (A raidleader of mine actually said: "Great, we have 4 holypriests online, but where are our healers?"). Being the gap filler is the very definition of unglorious.

Disc, if anything, is getting some significant love. The much anticipated inclusion of PW:Barrier adds another long cooldown to an already impressive toolbox of utility, and the mastery bonus of absorption adds to the already unique and powerful absorption healing style.

The unanswered question is that powerful part. I don't think many discpriests are claiming to feel powerful just yet. Things can and probably will happen though. But the specc definitively has a lot of neat toys, that's for sure.

Time will tell

[Deleted]

PW:B is a fun tool but in the current state its a pretty useleess tool for that matter.

Just assume you have 5k SP then it would absorb 36k damg before it collapses which is pathetic.
Devide this pittyfull absorb among only 10 people and it absorbs 3.6k for each person, absolutely and completely USELESS if you consider this crap has a 3 min cooldown , lolololol

Just take a look at healing hands for palas its on 30 sec cooldown healing EACH person in range for 7k PLUS SP up, even with only 10 people in range thats 70k without spellpower PLUS the absorb on EACH person sacling with the mastery bonus.
A raidwide aoe heal that scales with SP AND the mastery that scales with sp too.
ALL pala heals scale with SP AND mastery...........

Disc priests get a mastery that scales with ONE spell that was nerfed to a point the mastery can barely bring it to "todays lvl", a useless PW:B on a 3 min cd and on a talent that is only triggered on crits and due to the lack of aoe spells to trigger it is only usefull on 1 or maybe 2 players.............

[fabian]

PW:B is a fun tool but in the current state its a pretty useleess tool for that matter.

Just assume you have 5k SP then it would absorb 36k damg before it collapses which is pathetic.
Devide this pittyfull absorb among only 10 people and it absorbs 3.6k for each person, absolutely and completely USELESS if you consider this crap has a 3 min cooldown , lolololol

Just take a look at healing hands for palas its on 30 sec cooldown healing EACH person in range for 7k PLUS SP up, even with only 10 people in range thats 70k without spellpower PLUS the absorb on EACH person sacling with the mastery bonus.
A raidwide aoe heal that scales with SP AND the mastery that scales with sp too.
ALL pala heals scale with SP AND mastery...........

Disc priests get a mastery that scales with ONE spell that was nerfed to a point the mastery can barely bring it to "todays lvl", a useless PW:B on a 3 min cd and on a talent that is only triggered on crits and due to the lack of aoe spells to trigger it is only usefull on 1 or maybe 2 players.............

How many times has it been said, but PW:B has not yet been tuned? Hell, most of the numbers on Beta has yet to be tuned(the point of Beta).

Please, stop posting, because all you're posting is that how disc sucks right now even when it is freaking beta and the numbers haven't even been tuned. You still keep posting even though you've been told that nothing is balanced, and why PW:S was nerfed. You seriously need to understand what Beta means before you try to post in a discussion about it.