Poll: What's your opinion on 2hander Protadins?

[Ozmademos]

I'm interested in seeing what kind of support (or lack thereof) there might be from people about Paladins tanking with 2handers instead of 1handers and shields.

Thank you ahead of time

[Koen]

Roll a death knight.

Also, even if you would change protections paladins to 2-handed tankers; which makes no sense at all since protection paladins are centered about mitigating damage throughout blocking attacks thus needing a one-hander and a shield, then the tanking itself probably won't change all that much. Apart from needing more ways to mitigate damage through perhaps increased chance to parry?

It's just a silly idea. It's like asking for rogues to dps with two handers or something else ridiculous really :P

[Deleted]

they suck. period.

why?

1) no block.
2) missing tank stats.
3) a lot of missing armor.
4) a lot of missing mitigation and passive threat through holy shield.
5) only 2 usable attacks, meaning really shitty threat.
6) we're not DK's, we are balanced around sword and board tanking.
7) if you want to tank using a 2hander as a paladin, roll ret, go full DPS gear and get a decent healers for heroic 5mans.

could probably come up with more, but...

[Garrim]

Paladins are iconic for having a shield/hammer. I personally think retadins should be able to use a 1h/shield to DPS and basically duel wield with the shield. The armor of the shield is converted to a dps, like say 7000 armor shield at 6%-8% would give you a 430-680 OH weapon that would attack at like a 1.8 speed (numbers could be tweeked) to give you a decent OH weapon. However the armor of the shield no longer contributes to your armor overall. So if you have 19k armor then add the shield which would put you up to 26k armor, witht he talent you stay at 19k armor and basically bash attack with it as white melee hits.

Shields are great offensive weapons irl, WoW only recently started treating them as such. I'd go with a change like this over a 2h tanking spec for a paladin.

Spells like Shield of the Righteous would do dmg on white hits giving it holy dmg and raising the overall DPS of the spec and could possibly apply the same seal to your shield as your MH at like 60% dmg allowing this spec to work well on target swapping more then 2h but slightly less dmg on patchwork. It'd be a trade off and offer a player a viable option for what to DPS with as a retadin. My two cents anyways.

[Ozmademos]

Well, obviously the mechanics for tanking with a 2hander would change how Prot Paladins are played, including reworking abilities like Holy Shield and Avenger's Shield do perform the same task but without the requirement of a shield.

On a side note: there was an earlier thread http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ed-about-Block about Prot Paladins losing alot of their shield based abilities and losing out on alot of block in the recent build for Cataclysm. The changes are still coming (like the recent release of the Mastery system which looks more in line with Paladin being block-based tanks), but this is more just a question of concept.

IF this went through, then it would look something like:
Warrior with 1hander and shield
Druid with Paw
Death Knights Duel Wield
Paladins with 2hander

[Garrim]

If DK's did go to DW Blood to tank then that would mean 1h tanking weapons are useful only to warriors. That's horrible for loot tables and I think blizzard wouldn't like that. Any DK that uses 1.8 speed tanking weapons for DW tanking doesn't really know how to play their class. 1h slow DPS weps are ideal. So no I don't see that happening at all.

[Ozmademos]

If DK's did go to DW Blood to tank then that would mean 1h tanking weapons are useful only to warriors. That's horrible for loot tables and I think blizzard wouldn't like that. Any DK that uses 1.8 speed tanking weapons for DW tanking doesn't really know how to play their class. 1h slow DPS weps are ideal. So no I don't see that happening at all.

Devs have already posted, that they arent sure if they want to make any weapons specifically for tanking anymore.

[Talen]

Also, even if you would change protections paladins to 2-handed tankers; which makes no sense at all since protection paladins are centered about mitigating damage throughout blocking attacks thus needing a one-hander and a shield,

Which can easily change. The hard part is not duplicating a shield, it would be doing so in an imaginative way.

---------- Post added 2010-07-31 at 09:14 PM ----------

1) no block.
2) missing tank stats.
3) a lot of missing armor.
4) a lot of missing mitigation and passive threat through holy shield.
5) only 2 usable attacks, meaning really shitty threat.
6) we're not DK's, we are balanced around sword and board tanking.
7) if you want to tank using a 2hander as a paladin, roll ret, go full DPS gear and get a decent healers for heroic 5mans.

could probably come up with more, but...

...as you haven't come up with a decent argument against the concept, you aren't going to try any more?

Seriously? Your argument for why Paladins could not become 2H tanks is that they currently use a shield and thus cannot be redesigned to use 2H weapons?
If you want a reason why why Blizzard are unlikely to follow this route, its that it provides a clear, unambiguous difference between Rets and Prot and a way in which skill sets can be separated.

---------- Post added 2010-07-31 at 09:16 PM ----------

Paladins are iconic for having a shield/hammer.

In Warcraft. In most fantasy, paladins are iconic for their reliance on 2H weapons.

---------- Post added 2010-07-31 at 09:17 PM ----------

If DK's did go to DW Blood to tank then that would mean 1h tanking weapons are useful only to warriors.

Blizzards already gone on record as not liking tanking weapons and looking to get rid of them.

EJL

[Garrim]

@talem I said that paladins are iconic for 1h mace and shield and your response is 'In Warcraft.' Correct me if I'm wrong....is he asking to make tankadins into 2h weapon tanks in...DUN DUN DUN...Warcraft?! ZOMG!
If Blizzard does get rid of making pure tanking weapons, I'm sure some will still be slightly better for tanks. Such as fast weapons that might be affected by racial abilities that offer higher base stats and mastery compared to stats like crit and haste.

[Talen]

@talem I said that paladins are iconic for 1h mace and shield and your response is 'In Warcraft.' Correct me if I'm wrong....is he asking to make tankadins into 2h weapon tanks in...DUN DUN DUN...Warcraft?! ZOMG!

Yes. And you responded by stating that Paladins were iconic for wielding a shield. I added some clarification and pointed out that in most fantasy, this isn't the case.

If Blizzard does get rid of making pure tanking weapons, I'm sure some will still be slightly better for tanks. Such as fast weapons that might be affected by racial abilities that offer higher base stats and mastery compared to stats like crit and haste.

Very likely. Which doesn't invalidate the point that such weapons wouldn't be viable only for tanking warriors.

EJL

[Ken_Silver]

As cool as it would be to see a 2h Paladin tank a 5 man, I don't see it as a viable idea. At the same time, I'll miss seeing DW Death Knights too.

Maybe with the high health pools and stuff come Cataclysm, people can get some friends together and try to run a 5 man with a 2H Pally with RF on and a DW DK in Blood Presence. I wouldn't do that with strangers. It would be just for fun.

And if anyone does this, load it up to youtube. I wanna see. =)

[klaps_05]

right now i can tank heroic 5 man with wrathful/tier2 wep as Ret tho. prot tree and 2handers just dont belong together. also like other people said shield is iconic to the class and protection implies having it. let the dks have their 2handers

[Ozmademos]

@talem I said that paladins are iconic for 1h mace and shield and your response is 'In Warcraft.' Correct me if I'm wrong....is he asking to make tankadins into 2h weapon tanks in...DUN DUN DUN...Warcraft?! ZOMG!
If Blizzard does get rid of making pure tanking weapons, I'm sure some will still be slightly better for tanks. Such as fast weapons that might be affected by racial abilities that offer higher base stats and mastery compared to stats like crit and haste.

Even now (and if such a change occurred) slower weapons would be best for any weapon based attacks; Paladins especially, since they've never been reliant on a swing timer, but Hammer of the Righteous becomes twice as powerful with coefficients above 1.

[Borigrad]

You mean Ret with RF up right?

this, i can already be a dk tank as ret if i just pick up the same gear.

[Jambo]

I like this, all shields are MINE!!!

[Borigrad]

I like this, all shields are MINE!!!

pfft warriors don't need shields, they just need face masks... a lot more facemasks... to protect that ugly mug.

[Derichian]

In Warcraft. In most fantasy, paladins are iconic for their reliance on 2H weapons.

"in most fantasy"? wtf are you retarded. paladins in 95% of fantasy games and books are iconic for mace and shield.

every fantasy game i ever play if given the choice of paladin i take. and 95% of the time are shown as mace and shield, not 2 hand weapons.

you obviously have 0 understanding and/or No Fucking idea how paladins are portrayed in anything.

so i hope to god you are a troll. or please, do not make stupid fucking comments.

[Foibles]

No.

[Talen]

"in most fantasy"? wtf are you retarded. paladins in 95% of fantasy games and books are iconic for mace and shield.

every fantasy game i ever play if given the choice of paladin i take. and 95% of the time are shown as mace and shield, not 2 hand weapons.

Fantasy games are only a small section of what the world calls "fantasy". The sterotypical, iconic paladin weapon is not a sword and board...it is a 2 handed mace. Thats not to say paladisn can't use shields...in most fantasy games, they can. But if you're talking "iconic"....the ability to use something does not necessarily mean an association with it. There is a reason Uther uses a 2H weapon. There is a reason Arthas doesn't use a shield. There is a reason WC3 doesn't portray paladins as having shields.

EJL

[Deleted]

Fantasy games are only a small section of what the world calls "fantasy". The sterotypical, iconic paladin weapon is not a sword and board...it is a 2 handed mace. Thats not to say paladisn can't use shields...in most fantasy games, they can. But if you're talking "iconic"....the ability to use something does not necessarily mean an association with it. There is a reason Uther uses a 2H weapon. There is a reason Arthas doesn't use a shield. There is a reason WC3 doesn't portray paladins as having shields.

EJL

every paladin I've seen has used a shield and either a one handed sword or mace. world of warcraft was probably the first time I saw a paladin not using a shield (retribution)