Poll: What's your opinion on 2hander Protadins?

[zaruz]

ITT: People taking a light hearted suggestion far too seriously. *Points at the above flamewar*

[Cactrot]

ITT: People taking a light hearted suggestion far too seriously. *Points at the above flamewar*

In that post, someone who fails to understand what the flamewar was actually about.

[Pop-Dog]

You're almost there. Retract the statement that anyone who votes no doesn't know paladin lore. They aren't related. At all. You still don't even get where you went wrong, it's impressive in a way.

It isn't about saying people who don't know paladin lore are ignorant. That can be technically correct, though it has a very negative connotation. It's about assuming everyone else doesn't know lore and that's what they're basing their decisions on.

Aww, it's cute how you edited your post and bolded parts. It still doesn't disprove anything I said. You made an assumption. You acted arrogantly. Saying "everyone who voted no is arrogant and doesn't know lore" is not an opinion. It's a statement of "fact" that isn't really fact. Good try though.

The only people I've called arrogant are those who have resorted to name calling. Nice try though. There is no such thing as an opinion that is wrong. You fail yet again sir. And since you continue to harass me instead of staying on topic I will now choose to ignore you. Good day sir. This thread needs to be locked now. Too many people wont stay on topic.

[gabrranth]

No sir, I don't like it. }|:{

[Vaka]

I feel compelled to reply to Poopdog, rather than the OP, and I'm too lazy to read this entire thread and filter through the endless diatribes to see if my response was already hit upon.

I'm voting "I don't support this idea" simply because "This is so stupid that one of my brain cells actually committed suicide from reading it" isn't an option.

You say that Paladins are iconic for wielding two-handed maces.... Umm, that's ret. Prot, or PROTECTION, as the OP referred to isn't remotely iconic for two-handed anything. Do you have 2handed Hammer of the Righteous? umm, no. Do you have 2handed Mace of Righteousness? err.... still no. Perhaps it's Avengers 2handed Mace? hmm.. nope. Ooh, ooh, I know! It's Holy 2handed Mace........ err, shit, wasn't that either.. What exactly is iconic about two-handed PROTECTION Paladins?

[darkwarrior42]

In every universe but this one, the iconic image of a paladin includes a shield. I'm not going to support 2-handers for this universe's paladins just because that's how they were portrayed in Warcraft games up until this point.

Dungeons & Dragons was the first RPG to formally introduce the concept of a character class. It was also the first game to use Paladin as one such class. The iconic weapon of a Paladin in D&D is a holy avenger, traditionally a longsword (exact stats vary by edition, but usually +5 holy longsword with a few other properties)... a longsword is of course a one-handed weapon. That means you're carrying a shield in the other hand. The paladins of D&D were inspired by stories from the time and court of Charlemagne, and all games since D&D have drawn either from those stories, D&D, or other games that themselves drew from such sources.

So why do I vote "no" here? Because all the iconic imagery of the Paladin I've loved and followed the most has them using a sword and a shield. I was sorely disappointed that this isn't how they were portrayed in Warcraft, and looked at WoW not as a violation of lore, but as a correction of a long-standing error. Mechanically, DPS paladins have to use 2-handers in this game (or dual-wield, but I'm even less in favor of that), but that is based on mechanics. I would never have even considered a paladin using a 2-handed weapon of any sword in D&D, for any reason.

They may be more inclined to use a 2-handed weapon in this universe than in others, but I still consider it to be ultimately very un-paladin like, no matter how many iconic paladins of this universe do so. But then, the paladins of this universe are probably the most least "paladin like" paladins I've seen in any universe anywhere, getting away with violations of morality and ethics that in any other universe would lead to you losing your powers in a heartbeat. I've seen quests in this game that require you to do things that, if they had been done by a paladin in a D&D game I was running, would have led immediately to me stripping that paladin of all his powers until he formally atoned.

[zaruz]

In that post, someone who fails to understand what the flamewar was actually about.

Ofcourse. Why bother going back to go and read pages of kids flaming, which at the end of the day, has obviously come as a result of this little suggestion OP made.

[Pop-Dog]

I salute the people of this thread who are staying on topic. Cactrot, you could learn a lesson from these guys.

[Cactrot]

The only people I've called arrogant are those who have resorted to name calling. Nice try though. There is no such thing as an opinion that is wrong. You fail yet again sir. And since you continue to harass me instead of staying on topic I will now choose to ignore you. Good day sir.

lol. Wow. I didn't say you called anyone arrogant. I said YOU are arrogant. You called people ignorant.

An opinion cannot be wrong. YOU DID NOT STATE AN OPINION. You stated a "fact." Saying that everyone who voted no doesn't know lore is not an opinion.

The people clicking "I don't support this" obviously know nothing about the lore of paladins. Ah the sweet smell of ignorance.

That is not a statement of opinion in any way shape or form.

More fun facts, you're the one who came in and started calling people ignorant just for disagreeing with you. Don't be surprised you got the same thing back.

So you managed to miss the entire point of my post, be wrong twice, and then say "lol I'm gonna ignore you now." I guess you realize you have no defense and decided to run away from an argument you've obviously lost.

[Pop-Dog]

lol. Wow. I didn't say you called anyone arrogant. I said YOU are arrogant. You called people ignorant.

An opinion cannot be wrong. YOU DID NOT STATE AN OPINION. You stated a "fact." Saying that everyone who voted no doesn't know lore is not an opinion.


That is not a statement of opinion in any way shape or form.

More fun facts, you're the one who came in and started calling people ignorant just for disagreeing with you. Don't be surprised you got the same thing back.

So you managed to miss the entire point of my post, be wrong twice, and then say "lol I'm gonna ignore you now." I guess you realize you have no defense and decided to run away from an argument you've obviously lost.

Still harassing me instead of staying on topic I see. Maybe it's because I have no respect for somebody who's only defense in a debate is to berate me with insults that I said I was going to ignore you.

[Deleted]

One we are not Death Knight, two this is just a stupid idea I'm sorry but come on....

[Pop-Dog]

One we are not Death Knight, two this is just a stupid idea I'm sorry but come on....

Stupid? Maybe. Entirely possible? You bet.

[darkwarrior42]

The people clicking "I don't support this" obviously know nothing about the lore of paladins. Ah the sweet smell of ignorance.

Because it's not ridiculous. It actually makes perfect sense. You obviously know nothing about paladins. They are iconic for wielding two handed maces, nothing else. You are just stuck with the WoW mentality of tanks having to use shields.

Pop-Dog, these are two quotes of yours from the second page of this thread. I have not edited them in any way. The first post in particular is where you are arrogant; you assume in the first quote that the only possible reason for anyone to vote know is that the know nothign about paladins, and that if they DID know about paladins, they wouldn't be so foolish. In the second quote, you heavily imply that people who vote against this idea for reasons outside of lore are only doing so because they're unable or unwilling to consider different ideas, and that if they were to do so, they'd clearly see how wonderful an idea this is.

Both of these sentiments imply that your idea is the right one, and that anyone who disagrees with you is making a fundamental error somewhere, either by failing to understand the nature of a paladin, or by failing to consider new ideas. In other words, anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Can you see why people might have come to the conclusion that you're arrogant yet?

[Pop-Dog]

Pop-Dog, these are two quotes of yours from the second page of this thread. I have not edited them in any way. The first post in particular is where you are arrogant; you assume in the first quote that the only possible reason for anyone to vote know is that the know nothign about paladins, and that if they DID know about paladins, they wouldn't be so foolish. In the second quote, you heavily imply that people who vote against this idea for reasons outside of lore are only doing so because they're unable or unwilling to consider different ideas, and that if they were to do so, they'd clearly see how wonderful an idea this is.

Both of these sentiments imply that your idea is the right one, and that anyone who disagrees with you is making a fundamental error somewhere, either by failing to understand the nature of a paladin, or by failing to consider new ideas. In other words, anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Can you see why people might have come to the conclusion that you're arrogant yet?

Awww...and we were so close to getting everybody back on topic.

[Cactrot]

Still harassing me instead of staying on topic I see. Maybe it's because I have no respect for somebody who's only defense in a debate is to berate me with insults that I said I was going to ignore you.

You came in and called everyone else ignorant. You acted arrogantly then tried to defend it. You didn't stay on topic either. You (possibly intentionally) misread many posts. You repeatedly missed the points being made against your arguments. You acted arrogantly, you got called out on it. You might want to get off your high horse. I called you arrogant when you acted arrogant. You called people ignorant for disagreeing with you. Go on and ignore me. Every post you make just further proves you have no defense for your actions.

I've actually proven my points. You've only basically said "lol nah uhh" to defend your position. How's that workin out for ya?

Awww...and we were so close to getting everybody back on topic.

Aww, still no ACTUAL defense for your actions. Just more evasion. You'd make a good rogue, you seem to have 100% uptime on evasion.

[Pop-Dog]

You came in and called everyone else ignorant. You acted arrogantly then tried to defend it. You didn't stay on topic either. You (possibly intentionally) misread many posts. You repeatedly missed the points being made against your arguments. You acted arrogantly, you got called out on it. You might want to get off your high horse. I called you arrogant when you acted arrogant. You called people ignorant for disagreeing with you. Go on and ignore me. Every post you make just further proves you have no defense for your actions.

I've actually proven my points. You've only basically said "lol nah uhh" to defend your position. How's that workin out for ya?

Still not lettin' it go huh? You're repeatedly harassing me even though I've long since stopped arguing over things that aren't related to the topic. Why can't you let it go? I'm starting to think you don't like me. :[

[Cactrot]

Still not lettin' it go huh?

Nice on topic post there buddy. How about you address the issues instead of evading them, and then I won't have to keep calling you out? If you can show me where I was wrong, or admit you were, then this conversation would be over. Everyone disagrees with you. But hey, it's not you, it's everyone else.