Those of you amazed at the new DPS buffs...

[Saverem]

Don't forget that they have to make up for the fact that we're losing some serious DPS from the loss of Armed to the Teeth. I'd be surprised if they didn't raise our DPS in other areas in order to compensate. This hurts tanks especially hard, I know mine gets tons of AP from that talent.

[fwc577]

Honestly, good riddance, thats 3 points better spent elsewhere.

They will increaase the damage we do in other areas to compensate, thats the entire point of doing away with the mandatory talents.

Are their even any warrior builds out there that don't grab this talent?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bladed Armor out of the DK trees disappear too and replaced with something more useful.

[Grimsdott]

There is this gear specialization or whatever it's called that increases damage output by 5% iirc when wearing pure plate items. And 5% is huge.

[Tuvok]

There is this gear specialization or whatever it's called that increases damage output by 5% iirc when wearing pure plate items. And 5% is huge.

If both leather and mail posess the same buff, but plate alone loses the AP from the armour talent, that is a comparative loss. the 5% is across the board for all dps, Armed to the teeth and bladed armour are specifically plate user talents only, it is not compensated by the 5% buff for DKs and warriors. It's obvious the intention of the 5% buff isn't meant to complensate the loss of AttT or Bladed armour in any way, since if it was they wouldn't have implemented it for for classes other than DK/warrior, and especially not other armour classes. Really don't know why this keeps getting brought up, it's not a hard thing to realise.

As the 2nd poster said, I'm sure it will be compensated for in other areas, be it talent, ability damage increase or whatever, but don't try to suggest it has already been compensated for with an all class inclusive 5% flat buff. As a tank I rely heavily on that talent for much needed AP, losing it is a major blow, especially considering that the 5% buff for tanks is actually stamina, however I do not despair, as I have every faith it will be balanced out in the end, sometimes I think people bring up that 5% thing deliberately with the intention of seeking a nerf of some kind via the overlooking of the loss of AP from armour talents.

[catablitz]

I am prety sure it has been taken into account when designing vengeance.

[Foibles]

If both leather and mail posess the same buff, but plate alone loses the AP from the armour talent, that is a comparative loss. the 5% is across the board for all dps, Armed to the teeth and bladed armour are specifically plate user talents only, it is not compensated by the 5% buff for DKs and warriors. It's obvious the intention of the 5% buff isn't meant to complensate the loss of AttT or Bladed armour in any way, since if it was they wouldn't have implemented it for for classes other than DK/warrior, and especially not other armour classes. Really don't know why this keeps getting brought up, it's not a hard thing to realise.

As the 2nd poster said, I'm sure it will be compensated for in other areas, be it talent, ability damage increase or whatever, but don't try to suggest it has already been compensated for with an all class inclusive 5% flat buff. As a tank I rely heavily on that talent for much needed AP, losing it is a major blow, especially considering that the 5% buff for tanks is actually stamina, however I do not despair, as I have every faith it will be balanced out in the end, sometimes I think people bring up that 5% thing deliberately with the intention of seeking a nerf of some kind via the overlooking of the loss of AP from armour talents.

Do you really think the developers just lop off talents with no thought of their effect?

[Mmocowboy]

If both leather and mail posess the same buff, but plate alone loses the AP from the armour talent, that is a comparative loss. the 5% is across the board for all dps, Armed to the teeth and bladed armour are specifically plate user talents only, it is not compensated by the 5% buff for DKs and warriors. It's obvious the intention of the 5% buff isn't meant to complensate the loss of AttT or Bladed armour in any way, since if it was they wouldn't have implemented it for for classes other than DK/warrior, and especially not other armour classes. Really don't know why this keeps getting brought up, it's not a hard thing to realise.

As the 2nd poster said, I'm sure it will be compensated for in other areas, be it talent, ability damage increase or whatever, but don't try to suggest it has already been compensated for with an all class inclusive 5% flat buff. As a tank I rely heavily on that talent for much needed AP, losing it is a major blow, especially considering that the 5% buff for tanks is actually stamina, however I do not despair, as I have every faith it will be balanced out in the end, sometimes I think people bring up that 5% thing deliberately with the intention of seeking a nerf of some kind via the overlooking of the loss of AP from armour talents.

This specialization bonus is supposed ot only work if you are wearing your classes proper type of armor, Druids in leather, Shamans in mail, Warriors in plate, etc. So the bonus doesn't apply to mail in this case, therefore we lose Armed to the Teeth, but gain 5% damage if we wear only plate armor.

Sorry didn't read your post quite correctly.
And even not being compensated for it, I think it is still better this way, because before we had some incentive to wear the proper armor, but no penalty for wearing lower classes of armor, now if we wear even one leather or mail piece we lose our 5% damage bonus, and that is a penalty.

[Foibles]

This specialization bonus is supposed ot only work if you are wearing your classes proper type of armor, Druids in leather, Shamans in mail, Warriors in plate, etc. So the bonus doesn't apply to mail in this case, therefore we lose Armed to the Teeth, but gain 5% damage if we wear only plate armor.

Sorry didn't read your post quite correctly.
And even not being compensated for it, I think it is still better this way, because before we had some incentive to wear the proper armor, but no penalty for wearing lower classes of armor, now if we wear even one leather or mail piece we lose our 5% damage bonus, and that is a penalty.

Unless it changed very recently, it's 5% of your primary stat. Stam for tanks, strength for dps plate, int for healers, etc.

[Neichus]

Here's the lovely, amazing, fantastic reality of tree bonuses: it doesn't matter how badly they mangle our talents, they can decide what our DPS will be with the flick of a wrist.

Decide Arms is doing too little damage? Well let's buff its tree bonus from doing 10% to 15% more damage with 2H weapons! Fury coming in a tad low? Offhand damage from 25% to 35%! At any point in time they can do this and instantly fix any losses or gains Warriors have.

People REALLY need to stop worrying about buffs and nerfs in this Beta with regards to basic stats. They don't matter. At all. All that matters is whether the talent choices are compelling, the playstyle fun, and watch how they affect your special abilities and utility. Tree bonuses take care of the rest.

[iddqd]

Do not forget about the warrior class has no more ArP (from gear) anymore, i call this a bigger "nerf" than the lack of AttT!

[Boyiee]

Do not forget about the warrior class has no more ArP (from gear) anymore, i call this a bigger "nerf" than the lack of AttT!

It's a nerf? How on earth did warriors manage before wrath? We are doooooooooooooomed!

[Tuvok]

Do you really think the developers just lop off talents with no thought of their effect?

I answered that question with a resounding no in the second part of my post. I was simply addressing the idea that the 5% primary stat buff does not and was not intended to compensate for the loss of said talents.

[Master Guns]

OP, you couldn't be more wrong. Armor specialization gives 5%+ Strength when wearing all plate armor. That's more than double the AP from AttT.

[catablitz]

The removal of ARP will have impact on every physical DPSer and as so it is impossible that it has not been taken into consideration when designing or adjusting new attacks and current abilities.

The point of this talent is to give some AP boost( obviously!) to both dps and prot specs but it failed on making dpsers avoid leather pieces. With the new change it is mandatory to have full plate equiped which personally I like it better although I have been a leather user for ages.

I would also like to say that you shouldnt bash anyone for his worries.

As GC said : We buffed Shockwave just because it got caught up in the big AE nerf, but it's really not an AE on the level of Hurricane / Blizzard. We buffed Devastate because we realized we had forgotten to compensate it for reducing the number of Sunder stacks.

You can never know what feedback can do.

[BoxofRox]

Wait... losing some serious DPS? 15k armor (max), 15000 / 180 = 83.3 x 3 = 250.

You're losing so much attack power dude! EPIC NERF INCOMING WARRIORS, PREPARE FOR THE END.

[sleepyb]

Are people really complaining about nerfs from losing flat +dps talents? If you're losing an ability, sure, that'll still be missing when Cata launches. But DPS hasn't been tweaked yet, and won't be until AFTER the abilities and talents are finalized. At that point they're going to go through rotations on all classes at 80 and 85 (probably other levels/gear as well) and make sure DPS is roughly equal across all dps specs. This is how tuning works for any major talent/ability changes. Until that second pass for tuning is done, claiming "we dont has enough deeps!" is silly.

[Helander]

The only reason they implemented Armoured to the Teeth in the first place was to encourage us to ONLY wear plate, obviously didn't work and with the new specializations its not needed, our dps will
Remain balanced IMO

[Saverem]

Do not forget about the warrior class has no more ArP (from gear) anymore, i call this a bigger "nerf" than the lack of AttT!

That's what Colossus Smash is for!

---------- Post added 2010-08-01 at 05:25 PM ----------

OP, you couldn't be more wrong. Armor specialization gives 5%+ Strength when wearing all plate armor. That's more than double the AP from AttT.

L2READ the posts before you reply, Tuvok addressed that 3 posts down from mine -_-