"Hybrid" Tax Reduction?

[bigskurrah]

More like hybrid tax abolishment, there is no such thing as a buff class any longer, buffs have been spread around to the pures as well. This as an old out dated way of thinking and is akin to that old man hating rock and roll and thinking you're living a life of sin by listening to it.

[Aksor]

it's more like, you can also do a diffrent role
imo: dmg should be rougly the same, pures should have more cd's, utility, threat dumps, enz, which may result in a little more dps

[Tides]

Bigskurrah. You're misunderstanding the purpose of the Hybrid tax.

It has NOTHING to do with buffs.

You are a Hybrid if you are able to fulfill more than just the dps role. Warriors are hybrids with Tank and dps.

Priests are Hybrid with both Heal and dps.

Buffs are not related to Hybrid tax.

[Shampayne1985]

The hybrid tax hasn't existed in years. Flawed premise. It won't be reduced or removed because it doesn't exist.

You obviously don't play a Shaman then...sure the hybrid tax is immune to Paladins/Warriors/Druids though.

[Munk]

hen I was raiding in a "high end" guild durring the ulduar level of content (US 184) I got into this argument with one of our rogues how there is indeed a hybrid tax and while it may not be the 30% of BC its certainly more than the 5% Blizzard claimed at the launch of wrath.

I set out to prove this by comparing the top 50dps parses from ret pallies(my class), shadow priests(my wifes spec) and rogues or locks who were with the excetion of mimiron (which was warriors) the top dps across the board.

In fact at that raid content level the delta was anywhere from 13-18% depending on the fight, averaging almost 17% from ret/spriest average dps to the top being either the lock or rogue.

I do want to say that while i have no problem with hybrids being taxed IF WE ARE BRINGING SOMETHING UNIQUE AND USEFUL ala 3.0 Judgement of Light or the original spriest mana battery. As it stands now they have stripped away hybrid dps utility and while I cannot say for certain that the delta is still there I would be curious if someone has actually run the numbers from ICC.

[Daez]

There is a combination yes/no answer there since the "hybrid tax" HAS NOT EXISTED SINCE TBC. Blizzard has quoted countless numbers of times that hybrids that are played well can do as much if not more damage than pures. The current top dps specs are shadow priest (normally on top of the meters or gtfo), blood/unholy dks and fury warriors. All of those are hybrids not pures so they are perfect examples to shoot your non-existent "hybrid tax" out of the water. Also, well played elemental/enhancement shamans can easily earn a spot in the top 5 if they don't suck.

[Shampayne1985]

There is a combination yes/no answer there since the "hybrid tax" HAS NOT EXISTED SINCE TBC. Blizzard has quoted countless numbers of times that hybrids that are played well can do as much if not more damage than pures. The current top dps specs are shadow priest (normally on top of the meters or gtfo), blood/unholy dks and fury warriors. All of those are hybrids not pures so they are perfect examples to shoot your non-existent "hybrid tax" out of the water. Also, well played elemental/enhancement shamans can easily earn a spot in the top 5 if they don't suck.

You must be running with some horrible rogues

[Nev12]

^

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...n_Citadel/dps/

Hi.

[bigskurrah]

Bigskurrah. You're misunderstanding the purpose of the Hybrid tax.

It has NOTHING to do with buffs.

You are a Hybrid if you are able to fulfill more than just the dps role. Warriors are hybrids with Tank and dps.

Priests are Hybrid with both Heal and dps.

Buffs are not related to Hybrid tax.

Thanks for arguing blizzards semantic argument, which is total bullshit I might add. If you are specced into a dps role your heals are shit as is your longevity. 99.9% of the time you are there to provide said dps and will not be providing any heals WHATSOEVER. How does it make sense to rape a class of 30% (just a number -- throw in whatever you want) in a hybrid tax for a role or spell they use a whopping 1% of the time? I don't see warlocks nerfed into the gutter because they can tank a fight once in a while.

Either way, shaman numbers were kept low for most simply for the amount of buffs a shaman can bring WITHOUT talenting for them as stated per GC. This has been the case for as long as this game has been around, and most likely will not change until shaman numbers drop into the gutter.

PS: The single largest reason shaman dps is kept low I suspect is because it is 10x more difficult to find a healer then it is to find a dps, in effect pigeon-holing many shamans that wish to raid into resto. Just a thought.

[Tides]

There is a combination yes/no answer there since the "hybrid tax" HAS NOT EXISTED SINCE TBC. Blizzard has quoted countless numbers of times that hybrids that are played well can do as much if not more damage than pures. The current top dps specs are shadow priest (normally on top of the meters or gtfo), blood/unholy dks and fury warriors. All of those are hybrids not pures so they are perfect examples to shoot your non-existent "hybrid tax" out of the water. Also, well played elemental/enhancement shamans can easily earn a spot in the top 5 if they don't suck.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...77330431&sid=1

Ghostcrawler on Hybrid Tax. READ! ALL of you. There's way too many people talking random stuff cause they aint got a clear understanding of what it is. Read the post, THEN come back and qq.

[Shiggity]

welcome to mages in the tbc era

if you play shaman u better be fucking amazing at your class, start practicin bitches.

[bigskurrah]

WTS 2 accounts with full wrathful and 277 heroic ICC geared shamans one ele/resto and the other enh multiple arena and content cheese (arena master etc), also has druid, shadow priest both with 6k gs


/sadface

[Tides]

Shambulanced, yes i agree with you. My point was obviously not targetted at you, but at all the people that blame the Hybrid Tax for all the wrong in the world.

Also, it would be nice if people could stop saying stuff like the above Shiggity said.
Just because something was wrong in the past, like the abnormal overstacking of Shamans in Sunwell - however lovely it was - or the ridicule of Hybrid dps in Vanilla, does not justify balancing mistakes at this point.

Belive it or not Blizzard has gotten a hell of a lot better at balancing this game, so you can't just justify Shamans being a bit on the bad side now with that "Shamans were op in Sunwell man!"


Anyways, the point i tried to make with my previous post is just, read the thread i linked. It's only 1 post. Please. Read the responses to this thread instead of just the most recent one, then think a bit about it, THEN post. There's way too many people that just notice threads via the front page (Especially pures when it's a Hybrid tax discussion) and then pop in reads the last response and then proceeds to spout out nonsense that in most cases has nothing to do with the debate.

[TacoSauce]

Do shamans ever stop complaining about their class?

[Tides]

Do shamans ever stop complaining about their class?

THIS! Exacly this is what i talked about.
I swear this is the most annoying part about MMO forums. Random people pops into threads they have no place in or understanding of and cant be bothered reading the full thing and just types in a cheeky remark. REALY annoying.

[bigskurrah]

Tides;

There are multiple reasons shaman dps is in the gutter for many, the reasons quoted by blizzard are many. it isn't just the hybrid tax which is why people are quoting multiple reasons or are you too daft to see that?

The hybrid tax, bloodlust tax, and totem tax are huge reasons as to why shammies are the way they are. In other words, because a warrior has the option to tank doesn't mean he is going to. Especially with the strengths of druids and paladins at the moment. A druid is by design to be competitive with other heals yet their dps is on par with the other hybrids that are meant to be on par with rogues or mages, why is this not the case with shaman WHO HAVE TWO OTHER DPS TREES and a single healing tree?

PS: Just because GC colors a turd red doesn't make it an apple.

PPSS: Shamans are still being treated as though they are a buff class even with all these buff homogenizations, it's a design problem period.

[Tides]

Tides;

There are multiple reasons shaman dps is in the gutter for many, the reasons quoted by blizzard are many. it isn't just the hybrid tax which is why people are quoting multiple reasons or are you too daft to see that?

Once again i must repeat. I'm not aiming this at the people that can acually think as far as posting down a few of the many reasons. I know there are many small reasons factoring into our lackluster dps.
It's aimed at the people that blame practically everything in their own failing on the Hybrid tax and calls for "Rogue nurf" all the time.

And i'm sorry, fyi this thread is in fact about the Hybrid Tax

[Deleted]

The hybrid "tax" need to be bigger. Prolly up in the 15% area. The pure classes are getting lesser and lesser representation. There are around twice as many lvl 80 Paladins as lvl 80 Rogues - only Hunters and Mages(the only really pure dps class currently) can compete with the lesser popular hybrids - upping the tax would make Rogues and Warlocks a more specialized dps class which they should be. Newermind that homogenizing is bad for RPG games.

Up the tax to around 10-15% but ( and this is important) make the Hybrid playstyle emphasize more on offhealing/offtanking in pve.

Ditch meters which solely meassures dps. Hps/dmg absorbed from a hybrid class should count just as much as dps ( if values really matter that much). Thats what hybrid class should "specialize" in - hybrid gameplay.

A team should have midfield players - who both excell in defense and offense, Hybrids is a raids midfielders.

[bigskurrah]

A large reason so many people are experiencing lackluster dps is due to the fact you need insane gear to be competitive, double haste pots and possibly a TOTT from your rogues or PI from your disc priest who love you.

So because the OP put "hybrid tax" in the topic means people can't cite all the many reasons for a shamans current state? REALLY?

[Propainn]

Mages and warlocks have more tanking opportunities in WoW than fury warriors. On top of that, if a possible low % wipe is coming, I can't tank the boss anywhere near as long as a rogue or hunter could. We had our first Firefighter and Sindragosa HM kills thanks to deflection. By this I'd say pures are the better main spec tanks over hybrid dps, respeccing/gearing is a BS excuse.