Holy Power - Paladins

[maleita]

Can anyone explain me how will Holy Power work in Cataclysm? I've read alot of stuff like ability X will generate Y Holy Power, ability Z will consume W Holy Power, but I never found the information on how does Holy Power work, Will it be like the Soul Shards the warlocks will have (3 in maximum), or will it be like Runic Power?

Thanks in advance.

[Cluck]

It most closely resembles a combination of Runic Power and Combo Points really. It's got the personal aspect of Runic Power: You can use it on any target you please, just not the ones you generate it on. But it's got most of the other mechanics from Combo Points: A fairly low limit of how much you can have, and the amount you have influences the strength of the ability you use it on.

[Kavelos]

It's closer to combo points, except it's a self-buff. You use specific abilities to generate Holy Power up to 3, and then other abilities consume x (usually all) of the Holy Power you have generated. For instance, Inquisition (the Holy Damage buff) is a 30% Holy Damage buff for 10 seconds per Holy Power. Templar's Verdict, on the other hand, is a strike that has a variable amount of weapon damage per point of Holy Power.

For Ret, the general belief is that it will be something akin to maintaining Slice and Dice and then Eviscerating at max (I've seen cat druid examples too, but I've never played one), but since Holy Power is a self resource unlike combo points, there's no penalty (from that system anyway) for target switching.

[Emaluri]

It's closer to combo points, except it's a self-buff. You use specific abilities to generate Holy Power up to 3, and then other abilities consume x (usually all) of the Holy Power you have generated. For instance, Inquisition (the Holy Damage buff) is a 30% Holy Damage buff for 10 seconds per Holy Power. Templar's Verdict, on the other hand, is a strike that has a variable amount of weapon damage per point of Holy Power.

For Ret, the general belief is that it will be something akin to maintaining Slice and Dice and then Eviscerating at max (I've seen cat druid examples too, but I've never played one), but since Holy Power is a self resource unlike combo points, there's no penalty (from that system anyway) for target switching.

This is pretty close. Certain abilities generate Holy Power, while others consume all of your Holy Power at once to strengthen (or generate) an effect. Other abilities use Holy Power as a sort of coefficient, so paladins get some pretty awesome triple-dipping from AP, Spell Power, and Holy Power. Holy Power will be stored in a new UI element for paladins, and will be stored on the character itself, so no combo-point switching difficulties.


As of August 03, the abilities within the internal build that generate Holy Power are:

Crusader Strike is on a 4s cooldown (3s with Retribution talents), baseline, and generates 1 Holy Power.

Holy Shock is a 6s cooldown, is the Holy granted ability, and generates 1 Holy Power.

Tower of Radiance is a tier-6 Holy talent with 3 ranks, giving a 33/66/100% chance to generate 1 Holy Power when you directly heal the target of your Beacon of Light.

Hammer of the Righteous is on an 8s cooldown (I suspect this will be lowered to 4), Protection talent, shares a cooldown with Crusader Strike, and generates 1 Holy Power.


Abilities that consume Holy Power have no cooldown, limited only by your Holy Power generation. These abilities include:

Word of Glory, an instant-cast, baseline spell that casts a heal for X amount times the number of Holy Power it consumes. When you get it at level 5, for instance, it heals for 50-51 at 1 Holy Power, 100-102 at 2 Holy Power, 150-153 at 3 Holy Power. The base amount scales with level, and receives bonuses from spell power. Not sure of the coefficient yet.

Shield of the Righteous, a (currently) baseline spell that consumes Holy Power to deal damage, at the point where 3 Holy Power will make it probably the most damaging single-target attack that a Protection paladin can use. The Holy Shield talent causes this ability to generate 5% block per Holy Power consumed.

Inquisition is a buff that increases Holy damage done by 30%, lasting 10 seconds per Holy Power consumed.

Templar's Verdict, Retribution's granted ability, consumes Holy Power to deal a percentage of weapon damage. Currently, it's 55% for 1 Holy Power, 125% for 2, and 225% for 3.


Several abilities use Holy Power as a coefficient.

Seal of Righteousness uses two numbers to generate the extra damage it applies to your attack. One is the base weapon speed, which is multiplied by another number. This number is an amalgamation of several numbers, which is further multiplied by each Holy Power you have.

Holy Wrath deals an amount of damage in a meteor-like effect, but this is multiplied by each Holy Power you have, increased by 30% for 1, 60% for 2, and what appears to be 100% with 3.

Consecration, Exorcism, Avenger's Shield, Seal of Truth, and Judgement all use Holy Power to increase damage as well.

Seal of Insight has a chance on weapon attack to restore an amount of health and mana. Your current Holy Power will multiply the amount of health gained totally for each point, doubling it with 1 Holy Power, tripling it with 2, quadrupling it with 3. Don't get excited, it still won't be very much health, but it'll be more significant with more power.


So far, only one ability increases Holy Power generation. Zealotry is the Retribution 31-point talent. It has a 2-minute cooldown and causes your Crusader Strikes to each generate 3 Holy Power for the next 15 seconds.

[Highlight]

Having it explained out like that makes me excited. Sounds fun.

[Cluck]

Several abilities use Holy Power as a coefficient.

Seal of Righteousness uses two numbers to generate the extra damage it applies to your attack. One is the base weapon speed, which is multiplied by another number. This number is an amalgamation of several numbers, which is further multiplied by each Holy Power you have.

Holy Wrath deals an amount of damage in a meteor-like effect, but this is multiplied by each Holy Power you have, increased by 30% for 1, 60% for 2, and what appears to be 100% with 3.

Consecration, Exorcism, Avenger's Shield, Seal of Truth, and Judgement all use Holy Power to increase damage as well.

Seal of Insight has a chance on weapon attack to restore an amount of health and mana. Your current Holy Power will multiply the amount of health gained totally for each point, doubling it with 1 Holy Power, tripling it with 2, quadrupling it with 3. Don't get excited, it still won't be very much health, but it'll be more significant with more power.

Are you basing that on the fact that it says "Holy Power" in the WoWHead tooltips for these abilities? Because I'm going to have to disappoint you than, the Holy Power they list in the tooltips for those abilities is just a shorter way of writing "Holy Spell Power". It's not related to the Holy Power CS and HS generate.

[Emaluri]

Are you basing that on the fact that it says "Holy Power" in the WoWHead tooltips for these abilities? Because I'm going to have to disappoint you than, the Holy Power they list in the tooltips for those abilities is just a shorter way of writing "Holy Spell Power". It's not related to the Holy Power CS and HS generate.

This could be so, but seems unlikely, as proper spell power coefficients are simply left out from these tooltips, evidenced by all of the healing spells, direct damage spells, and damage over time spells throughout this and other classes. The only abilities that are broken down are abilities with unique coefficient systems, such as melee strikes and, in these cases, Holy Power.

But you could be right.

[Cluck]

This could be so, but seems unlikely, as proper spell power coefficients are simply left out from these tooltips, evidenced by all of the healing spells, direct damage spells, and damage over time spells throughout this and other classes. The only abilities that are broken down are abilities with unique coefficient systems, such as melee strikes and, in these cases, Holy Power.

But you could be right.

Even the live tooltips for most Paladin spells actually do have the full proper spell power and attack power coefficients in their tooltips. In the game however, they're just converted to their final damage numbers. It's why the damage Consecration says it does changes if you change your gear.

[Soulssong]

Thanks to @Emaluri for the detailed explaining. I was totally lost when reading about the abilities from the blue posters. That makes a ton of sense!

[macke]

It's closer to combo points, except it's a self-buff. You use specific abilities to generate Holy Power up to 3, and then other abilities consume x (usually all) of the Holy Power you have generated. For instance, Inquisition (the Holy Damage buff) is a 30% Holy Damage buff for 10 seconds per Holy Power. Templar's Verdict, on the other hand, is a strike that has a variable amount of weapon damage per point of Holy Power.

For Ret, the general belief is that it will be something akin to maintaining Slice and Dice and then Eviscerating at max (I've seen cat druid examples too, but I've never played one), but since Holy Power is a self resource unlike combo points, there's no penalty (from that system anyway) for target switching.

Feels more like Hunger for Blood though

[Cyclone Duke]

As of August 03, the abilities within the internal build that generate Holy Power are:

Crusader Strike is on a 4s cooldown (3s with Retribution talents), baseline, and generates 1 Holy Power.

Holy Shock is a 6s cooldown, is the Holy granted ability, and generates 1 Holy Power.

Hammer of the Righteous is on an 8s cooldown (I suspect this will be lowered to 4), Protection talent, shares a cooldown with Crusader Strike, and generates 1 Holy Power.

Holy paladins directly healing their beacon gives them one holy power still right? Tower of Radiance talent

[Emaluri]

Holy paladins directly healing their beacon gives them one holy power still right? Tower of Radiance talent

Yes, I missed that. Editing the post to include it.

EDIT: Added.

[Phoenixdown]

Reminds me of combo points, except it's not on your target.

[maleita]

thanks guys =)

[Pyth]

One of the things I liked about Prot Paladins and the 969 rotation is that while most all of our abilities had CD's, they lined up in a way that you never had a GCD go by without an OPTION of something to push. My only concern with Cataclysm and Prot is that may not be true anymore.

CS is going baseline, but with the same 4s CD (Imp CS is currently Ret only). And as Ret currently knows, 4s is such a clumsy CD because it doesn't work well with a 1.5 GCD. You either do two moves, then wait a full second before using your next one, or you do 3 moves, and then you're at 4.5s worth of GCD's before you can use your 4s CD move.

If it was just a straight up damage ability like it is today, then I guess it is clumsy, but oh well. But now, it is the chief mechanic for building up our HP. They are adding HotR to the list of what can generate HP, which is nice, but the current CD is listed as 8s. That is twice as long, but since 8 is a multiple of 4, it will suffer the same clumsy GCD clashing. Even if they lower it to 4s, it will just have the same issue as CS.

So, in order to generate your HP, you start off the fight by hitting with CS (Or HotR, assuming they give them both a shared 4s CD)
Start of fight: 0.0s Everything is ready
CS: 1.5s GCD ready
AS: 3.0s GCD ready (Get it on CD off the bat for the threat, plus the chance the CD will be refreshed)

Now you have a choice:
Wait a full second, then use CS again: 5.5s GCD ready
Follow up with Judge/Cons/Holy Wrath: 7.0 GCD ready

OR, use another move first: 4.5s GCD ready
THEN use CS: 6.0 GCD ready

So there is the dilemma with the 4s CD. Once the fight has started, you have a choice:

A) Waste 1 second every CS/HotR CD so it is ready to be used immediately at the 4s mark (without a GCD confict) to build up your HP as quickly as possible. That means that you will have a 3 stack of HP ready to go every 12 seconds, but 3 of those seconds, or 1/4 of the time will be wasted waiting on CD's. 1/4 of your time purposefully waiting before you can use a threat/survival ability seems like a lot of time.

B) Use a threat/survival ability every GCD if there is one to use, making sure to use CS/HotR everytime it is off CD. The advantage to that is, provided we have something available to use every GCD, is that we won't be purposefully waiting 1/4 of every fight waiting for our GCD to lineup with our HP building moves. The downside is that doing this effectively makes our 4s CD HP building move have a 4.5s CD. Instead of having a 3 stack of HP every 12 seconds, it will be every 13.5 seconds.

The obvious solution to me would be make both CS and HotR have a shared THREE second CD. It lines them up with the GCD perfectly, and it also means we can build our 3 stack HP in 9 seconds instead of 12 seconds. Considering Ret can already do that with their Imp CS, which shaves the CD on CS down to 3 seconds, it seems to not be completely off the wall.

Since this would make Imp CS rather pointless for Ret, I would say, to compensate, take current % weapon damage that CS does, and scale it from a 4s CD down to a 3s CD, just like they did back when it went from a 6s to a 4s CD.

For Prot, the slight damage nerf won't be that huge, especially if they are using a fast 1H, and the benefits of the 3s CD lining up with the GCD will far outweigh a slight damage reduction to what is chiefly a HP generating move.

For Ret, change the Imp CS talent to increase the damage back up to the current 4s CD version, and you basically have no net change for them.

TL;DR Change CS and HotR to a 3s CD!