to all ret spec holy pallies

[Tatsu]

4 out of 5 Holy paladins recommend Divine Sacrifice™ for relieving raid-wide pain.

Thats great, i lol'ed irl

[Deleted]

Ret: 10% reduced mana cost on instants, such as dispells, hands, beacon, SS, holy shock etc.

Divine Plea, you shouldn't need this really... Unless you can't manage your mana it might help a bit.

2 seconds reduced CD on judgement ( More MP5 )

You Judg every CD?!

15% Movement speed over 8%

Why do you need 15%? 8% is enough.

Possibly 3% crit debuff ( but your raid most likely have that )

Like you said yourself, provided by other specs/classes already so not really a "why chose Holy/Ret spec" argument

I only see the first one as slightly usefull and a lot of holy paladins still put 2 leftover points in Benediction but at the higher gear level you shouldn't need that. (I instead placed them into blessed hands, reduces mana cost of all hands, Salv lowers more threat and sac transfers 10% more.)

[Asrialol]

I don't see why people are using the argument that ret gives more mana in a fight. Because really, it doesn't. If you are constantly throwing out Holy Lights only, then yes it will probably provide 50ish more mp5 in a 6 minute fight.

Anyway, people can claim ret spec is on pair with prot all they want. They can keep being bad.

[Deleted]

Divine Plea, you shouldn't need this really... Unless you can't manage your mana it might help a bit.

You Judg every CD?!

Depends on the fights. Alot of my friends judge on every CD because healing is just so faceroll. They make sure they always keep a judgement debuff up.

Why do you need 15%? 8% is enough.

Why do you need 5% extra healing in divinty, why not go 1% in divinity and the rest 4% in strenght. 1% healing is enough!

Like you said yourself, provided by other specs/classes already so not really a "why chose Holy/Ret spec" argument

As I have also said, I am not crusading the Holy/Ret is the best. Far from. I am saying that both specs are viable in different specs, and that holy/ret is especially superior to prot when you have no problem downing the content ( E.g. farm content ). While Holy/prot is better in not all, but most fights where your group struggles ( E.g. most progress ).

@ "Stop feeding the troll"

I am not trolling. I am giving valid arguements, and all I get back is the same, same shit, every time, "but divine sacrifice!". Where as I have given valid arguements that under alot of circumstances, DS is compeltely useless. How about someone else come up with some arguement that prove me wrong.

( Also, I have myself said that holy/prot is better in alot of fights, so don't come with the obvious shit like "Holy prot is better then holy ret on saurfang!!!", since that is pretty obvious. I have been saying all along that both specs are viable in different fights and that it all depends on your raid. )

So please, can someone prove to me that holy/prot is better then holy/ret IN EVERY FIGHT ( I'll exclude valithria for you ). And also, please don't try to repeat the things I have already said. ( E.g. I have said that holy/prot is better in alot of progress situations ).

I am not the troll here.

[Nikoll]

Prot sub is better in EVERY progression fight. Look at evey make or break boss for various guild levels. DBS, raidwide shieldwall trumps the extra crit. While your two targets Could arguably benifit more from the crit, the tank and all other marks benifit much more from the reduction. Festergut, predictable spike damage to the raid and tanks. No brainer there. Putricide, p3 dg than am. That's pretty much win. Bql, while healing i can almost give this one to you, but f and only if you are a fol spammer, at wich point you lose anyway. Dreamwalker, obvious ret wins. Though I've heard actual ret paladins in holy gear can do more bps with sheath of light double dips. Sindy, p3 that shield wall is clutch. Tanks taking massive damage, out of cooldowns, half the healers can't cast. Yeah, clutch. And lk favors dg as with two holy paladins and two ret, not uncommon for a h lk group, you can cover 6/7 infest between am and dg. Toss another paladin in here and infest is trivial. Halion I can't really comment on, I've only tanked the adds, and the entire time I want to stab myself out of bordome.

[Elessa]

Okay, Firefly. If it's not for the crit, which you stated was useless after my last post. Why on earth would you go into the ret tree?

Okay.
Less CD on Judgement obviously doesn't matter since regen shouldn't be an issue on farm fights.
You MIGHT gain a small amount of raiddps by getting Imp Might or the 3% crit if you've got a really bad setup in the first place.
The 7% movement speed is good, ill give you that.

Your main argument is "farm content is so easy anyway, you don't need DG". I agree, healing is easy on farm content. But that is because you are MAKING it easy by bringing to many healers. If you were to drop a healer DG would be needed again, making healing more fun, and getting more dps than a small buff from ret would ever give.

So yeah, you DON'T bring valid arguments.

[Ducon]

Firefly,You are telling me I should have 2 holy specs for fights I can do as well (better actually) with the one Im using as opposed to have f.e. holy/prot or holy/dps which actually could benefit my raids? Yea I consider that some sort of trolling.