A bit confused about how Ignite works

[aceindahole]

About 4 days ago I got my mage to 80 and respecced fire (cookie cutter TotW spec). In fire gear and with a crit trinket my crit chance is about 40% or more depending on the spell I'm using. What I'm wondering is, if I have Ignite on a target from something like a Hot Streak crit and I get a crit with Living Bomb or Scorch or something, does that smaller spell overwrite my huge Pyro crit? Or do they stack/absorb into one? If it does overwrite, should I be modifying my rotation around what spells have critted?

Secondary question - does my Hot Streak casted Pyro contribute to the next Hot Streak if it crits?

Thanks so much for some insight!

[boseguy22]

Id recommend reading the fire mage guide here on MMO or on jerks. They both offer a lot more insight, without the potential trolls, and come complete with the math.

[FriedNublet]

Nope, Ignite munching no longer exists. Ignite rolls now which basically means you don't need to worry about it.

[aceindahole]

I know what Ignite munching is (or was), but what does 'Ignite rolls' mean?

[Swizzle]

I know what Ignite munching is (or was), but what does 'Ignite rolls' mean?

it means consecutive crits on a target during the duration of the ignite refreshes its duration with the remaining damage from the prior being added to the damage of the new one.

secondary question: pyroblast doesn't proc hot streak, so no.

[SolaronTich]

Essentially what rolling ignite means is that if a crit occurs while ignite is still on the target, any damage remaining in the current ignite effect is added to the new effect, thus ensuring no damage is lost.

So if I crit for 10k, an ignite effect is created dealing 4k total, 2k each tick.

If I crit for 6k before the second tick, a new ignite effect is created which will deal 2.4k total, 1.2k each tick.
Since there was 2k left from the first effect still, this gets added to the new effect, thus it will deal 4.4k total, 2.2k each tick.

Direct damage: 10k + 6k = 16k
Ignite damage: 2k + 4.4k = 6.4k

16k * .4 = 6.4k, thus no damage is lost.

[KaynDarksbane]

Ignite rolling basically means that un-dealt Ignite damage is added to the new ignite total, meaning you never lose ignite damage when you crit with ticks left.

[Valanna]

It means that as long as the debuff stays up without dropping off a target, all crits stack and contribute into sometimes ridiculously huge ticks. (My record is around 140k)

[sidphoenix]

It means that as long as the debuff stays up without dropping off a target, all crits stack and contribute into sometimes ridiculously huge ticks. (My record is around 140k)

Ignite hasnt worked that way since the 1 ignite total per mob days of vanilla. you would actually need to be putting out fire crits over 100k per spell for that to happen.

100kcrit=40k ignite(20k/tick), so you would have to land 7 of those within the range of the 4 second debuff .

100k crit starts a 40k ignite. crit again for 100k=40k added to ignite, with 20k left from the first.(60k means 30k ticks) crit again for 100k=40k added to ignite making it 70k, ticking for 35k. crit again for 100k-40k added=75k with 37.5 tick+another 40k=77.5.

as you can see the sequence simply approaches ticks that are as large as your initial crit would make the ignite(2* initial ticks).

even if you double this pretending you are somehow throwing out pyros on GCD from an earlier LB applicationfest on trash mobs, a 140k tick would mean you were critting for 350k. really? 140k is 20% of 700k damage.

[Valanna]

As long as you crit more than every 4 seconds continuously the damage won't be reduced. Getting a 140k tick means that I've crit a total of 700k damage without letting the debuff go off. It means that I've crit more often than every 4 seconds for long enough time that my crits have dealt a total of 700k damage.

[Swizzle]

Ignite hasnt worked that way since the 1 ignite total per mob days of vanilla. you would actually need to be putting out fire crits over 100k per spell for that to happen.

100kcrit=40k ignite(20k/tick), so you would have to land 7 of those within the range of the 4 second debuff .

100k crit starts a 40k ignite. crit again for 100k=40k added to ignite, with 20k left from the first.(60k means 30k ticks) crit again for 100k=40k added to ignite making it 70k, ticking for 35k. crit again for 100k-40k added=75k with 37.5 tick+another 40k=77.5.

as you can see the sequence simply approaches ticks that are as large as your initial crit would make the ignite(2* initial ticks).

even if you double this pretending you are somehow throwing out pyros on GCD from an earlier LB applicationfest on trash mobs, a 140k tick would mean you were critting for 350k. really? 140k is 20% of 700k damage.

my ignite tick would like a word with you.

[Deleted]

this may help:

http://www.frostnova.ch/tachyon/blog...ew&id=38961152

[DirewolfX]

@sidphoenix: My fireball casts faster than 2 seconds... if I successively crit with fireball, I keep refreshing Ignite without doing any ticks. That's how you get ridiculously huge ignites. They're fun, for sure, but ultimately it round out to ~40% increase (in practice, a little lower due to a few mitigating factors) in crit damage over the course of the fight. Stacking ignites won't actually increase your bottomline.

Although, does Ignite double dip on the ICC buff? Have never been sure about that. Suppose I'm about to go check a log heh.

---------- Post added 2010-08-05 at 05:02 PM ----------

Nevermind, it doesn't. Log + math ftw. (or ftl?)

[sidphoenix]

ok, direwolf's makes sense. has absolutely no bearing on valanna talking about critting more often than every 4 seconds, but yeah if you literally never let ignite tick, then eventually itd drop all that damage in one.

hadn't thought about that since it doesnt affect the bottom line damage, but on gimmick fights with stupid high haste or crit buffs i can see it happening. If you have it happening on LK i can only assume you're LBing the adds to keep it rolling like that. otherwise 30k crits would require 20 in a row to get that high. living bomb wont count for a huge amount of damage in that, though it will help keep it rolling. Guess Ill have to put my floating combat text back on, as i have ignored it.

[Swizzle]

i had a 64k tick on saurfang this week. good times, good times.

[sidphoenix]

well 60k would still have been fine under my old understanding of what you guys were talking about since a few good 35k's in a row there. RNG is RNG and im sure there are plenty of people out there who happen to get 20 crits in a row and get the 140k mentioned, but it would require the new fireball glyph, 2pc t10, and enough haste to keep up PTL, OR be under the effects of a bloodlust. Ill just be sure to turn recount back on this coming week since im bad enough with logs I don't know how to go in and grab individual ticks from WoL. If smeone can just tell me that, then ill just try next week with my new hastier set.