The Warlock Niche?

[mcpain]

In vanilla, warlocks seemed to have a very specific niche - wielders of demonic magic and dominion over demon slaves.

In cataclysm, I don't see a niche for warlocks. Maybe I am not digging enough into the class differences and, if so, I am happy to be corrected.

As a pure dps class, that is our bread and butter, and honestly i have no complaints...warlocks may not be the leet dps they were with SB spam in BC, but we are certainly competitive and perform well from a dps standpoint.


CC - used to be a big deal, and used to be considerably limited to mages, rogues, hunters and locks.
CC is now the business of locks, mages, hunters, warriors, priests, paladins, shamans, rogues, druids, dks...it seems there is a CC for every class.

Debuffs - warlocks were great to have in vanilla and bc raids because of debuffs they provided - particularly resistance debuffs that were consolidated into curse of elements for wrath.
Not only have the quantity of debuffs increased, making each one theoretically less important, but debuffs have been given to more classes in an attempt to keep locks (or any class) from feeling mandatory - but at the same time marginalizes the class.

Pets - this was initially what drew me to the warlock...it's not just a lone soldier...he has a buddy! Now there are a potential 4 classes with a perma-pet. I still don't consider mages and dks pets to be on par with lock or hunter pets. While they are permanent the mage or dk have only one pet to choose from with limited utility. Now, the hunter is another story. I have always envied the number of pets they have to choose from, but felt that this was balanced by the inability to readily call on any one of them. The hunter chose a pet and was stuck with it (until he got to a stable master) and this seemed an even trade. In cata hunters can have 5 pets available at all times (out of combat) which is more than non-demo warlocks...huh? Well if they're going to do that can we at least talent our little pets too?

Raid utility - the warlock is a bit limited here, which is understandable given that we are a high dps class. At one time healthstones and soulstones were a necessity...I don't see this happening again and I'm ok with that, but the warlock offers little to a raid outside of his individual damage. We don't have buffs (we have one buff that we can use to buff one person...doesnt count lol), and soulstones are stupid! - yes they can be useful...if someone dies, and you are able to accurately predict who will die, and they are able to die in a place where they can survive being resurrected with little health and mana...lets face it...this is a stupid ability that can be good...but typically is not.

Draining/Self Healing - this, IMO, was the biggest difference between warlocks and mages, as well as all other dps classes. The warlock is a drainer when he wants to be...taking your mana as his own, taking your hp as his own. This had PvP use obviously but was also really helpful in raids where mana conservation was important - if your healers were running low you would DL/DC/bandage to help out. For the sake of "PvP equality," everyone and his cousin can heal themselves in some way - with the rogues being the last to get this nifty ability. In addition a lot of specs/classes have passive self-healing abilities or procs...i still dont understand the logic of a warrior healing himself btw.

I guess my dilemma is that I fear we will not offer anything special in cataclysm and it would be much more beneficial to pick a hybrid class when working towards progression - i don't want to retire my lock - i just want it to be a bit more useful.

There is a fair chance I am mistaken or have overlooked some logical fallacy...before you respond keep in mind, it's just a game.

[Ravemstr]

Baseline it goes like this:
- a new game comes out
- the game has classes
- different classes do different things
- people play what class they like/connect to
- people start developing envy towards other classes
- classes start being blended together
- people see it works, develop more envy
- classes become more blended
- people demand everything some other class has for his own
- guess what?...

Please place Cata in this timeline...

[gherkin]

This is the natural progression of a multiplayer game. You start with the allure of different classes but eventually in order to propagate fairness and equality there must be a balance in outputs (healing, damage), inputs (damage taken, healing taken), time investment to catch up, and counters to abilities.

You can't recruit new players with a significant time sink required to be competitive (FF11), you can't completely homogenize all the classes otherwise there's no reason to roll one over the other, and you can't keep classes completely differentiated or you lose your existing player base/everyone rerolls the top 3. It's a fine line to walk.

[mcpain]

The question at the heart of this is - Why pick a warlock?

What makes him special/stand out? (im being completely serious)

For example...someone wants to be a pure dps caster...why pick a warlock over mage? do you have reasons to pick mage over lock?

[Ravemstr]

If you have friends that play and have a lock/mage ask them to let you play that char for a week, usual dailies, dungeons, bgs, a raid or two...
See what you like/want.
The only thing i will say is... My main is a lock, i have one 80 alt - a DK because i wanted to see what tanking is like - and two others i'm leveling to 80 on different servers to play with some friends.
The other two chars are both locks!

[mcpain]

Rave: i have an 80 lock and mage among others. I end up playing my mage because it is more useful and does roughly the same dps in similar gear.

If im going to do a random heroic...id rather take the mage...you never know if your group will suck and you will rely on polymorph/iceblock/nova/whatever.

If im in a guild run or with friends on farmed content I'll take the lock...i like his dance and /train animations better.

I want people to really answer my question about what makes a Lock stand out from a mage and vice versa...if your only response is about something the mage has that the warlock doesnt have...something is wrong

[Deleted]

The question at the heart of this is - Why pick a warlock?

What makes him special/stand out? (im being completely serious)

For example...someone wants to be a pure dps caster...why pick a warlock over mage? do you have reasons to pick mage over lock?

Because you are a warlock.

Give the classes a play, find the one which just feels "right". You're supposed to pick a class because you like that style of play, not because it does X best.

Prior to tBC, I decided that I would roll a Belf Warlock on release. during Vanilla I tried druid, hunter and rogue, never made it past 30. Tried a warrior and loved tanking, but not so much elsewhere, got to 50ish. Decided to roll undead warlock as a trial before tBC came. I have been an affliction warlock ever since. I didn't care about balance, or viability, or any of that. All that mattered to me was that I was playing the class and spec that I loved. And it showed, I could consistently out perform people who by all means should have done better than me.

I'm kind of grateful that I never even made it to BT before 3.0, it means I never had to choose between progress and having fun.


As long as affliction continues casting DoTs, I'll be happy.

[Reverrend]

Well, my main was a mage, i really liked the Mage class, pretty usefull on CC, a nice mana buff for the raid, provides food e.t.c

well, Arcane is so boring at the moment, and Frost on pvp is still the same, once you learn how to play a frost mage thats it , same thing all over..

The warlock on the other hand looks more fun to me, as i got one 80 and gearing him up now. They got 3 different specs, i mean very Different, Destruction, casting nuker, pretty much as a fire/arcane mage. Affliction, a really different spec from Destruction, playing with damage over time effects, Demonology, a pretty nice spec, emphasis on pets mostly and metamorphosis, You know, its awesome to be the only class that turns into a Demon..

The unique about warlocks are the pets for me, Pretty much.. Summoning a Doomguard in a Bg is really awesome, or a Fel Inferno.

Its your choice playing a warlock or a mage.

Il stick with my warlock till cataclysm, Then we are gonna see what happens

[allforone]

What makes the warlock stand out?
- CC, We're still one of the only classes that can CC demons and elementals. Don't forget enslave demon as well.

- buffs/debuffs - We're still on the top here. A demo lock by himself can boost caster dps by over 20%(between ISB, Demo pact and elements.)

- Raid utility - It's pretty easy really, you either SS a healer or a druid. SSes give about 5k health on rez so it's enough if a healer is prepped for it. Healthstones are still very nice to classes that can't heal.

- Pets, Eh, hunters honestly look like they get a lot of pets, but honestly most of them suck(i.e. there is a reason every passable hunter uses a wolf pet). There are only really three pet trees(one for soloing, one for PvP and one for dps), and most of the unique CDs each animal type gets, if they're any good, most of those have really long CDs(e.g. spider and silithid's snare.) Mage and DK pets, they provide minor dps and some passable stun-based CC respectively.

Draining/Self-healing - This one really isn't a contest. They're not getting self-healing on par with what something like an aff lock can do. They're getting the equivalent of Death coil, a healthstone or a crappy version of fel armor.

At the end of the day, we bring the best caster tank, frankly bring most of the important caster buffs in the demo tree, unlike mages we bring long-term sustainable dps, we aren't relying on long CDs to do powerful damage. As aff we have a larger degree of movement than other classes because our main nuke is only 30-40% of our damage. Our rotation is also quite complex, we have to watch for either rare procs or have anywhere from 4 to 9 timers to watch.(affw/engi has to watch CoA, SE, Corr, Haunt, UA, two trinkets, bombs, glove enchant AND we have to watch the boss' health for Drain soul phase.)

[Ravemstr]

what makes a Lock stand out from a mage and vice versa

There are more types of answers to this question:

Recount:
some 2-3k minus for the lock (in the same gear an arcane mage will trump any lock hard)

Gameplay:
LifeTap + DrainLife beats the hell out of /sit + /drink

Lore:
locks are mages that tried to improve themselves

RP:
mages are "goody two-shoes", locks are "bad ass motherfuckers"

Utility:
due Cata mages have everything, locks will only have another BRez.

I, for one, don't choose my class on what's hot, or FotM, or what class has the most utility etc. I will choose a class that i like to play.

I can't give you a straight answer but i would never roll a mage after playing a lock. If i didn't play a lock things would be different. Mages have everything... a lot of CC, cool buffs, portals, tables, the best DPS etc. When i'm playing a lock i just don't care. I have fun playing my lock! And i will laugh my ass off every time i beat a mage at DPS.

Maybe it's out of spite... "Oh yeah? Mages are that good? Well watch this then..." Maybe it's because i relate to the lock play style more. Maybe because i relate to the class more. I really don't know!
But given the opportunity to be in a World First guild as a mage or in my 10 man struggling to down Sindi on HC with a 30% buff on my lock... my choice would be made before the question finished!

We're not top dps anymore! We don't have the utility we once had(Guild mass summon in Cata ( qq, we're useless)! We don't have the CC we once had! We don't have the uniqueness we once had! But i still play a warlock!

If you've come to a point where you're asking yourself "What should i play?" and the answer isn't "A lock! Doh!!!" then don't play it. Whatever i tell you, or anyone else, won't matter! IMO it's something you feel, not something you think about, or try to rationalize with logical discussions!
No, i'm not in any way a RP!

[Jessicka]

Play a Warlock because you like playing a Warlock, not because it brings something that'll get you into a raid more easily.

[Shullski]

I play a lock because I love the playstyle. Have a spec with bug crits, a spec with a shit ton of dots, and a spec where we get a badass demon...and the fact that its not at all faceroll.

Why dont I just roll a mage? My idea of fun is not a rotation of 2 buttons..and if I would like to use the gear dependant complicated spec, I get a 3 button rotation

[OoMally]

There are more types of answers to this question:

Recount:
some 2-3k minus for the lock (in the same gear an arcane mage will trump any lock hard)

Gameplay:
LifeTap + DrainLife beats the hell out of /sit + /drink

Lore:
locks are mages that tried to improve themselves

RP:
mages are "goody two-shoes", locks are "bad ass motherfuckers"

Utility:
due Cata mages have everything, locks will only have another BRez.

I, for one, don't choose my class on what's hot, or FotM, or what class has the most utility etc. I will choose a class that i like to play.

I can't give you a straight answer but i would never roll a mage after playing a lock. If i didn't play a lock things would be different. Mages have everything... a lot of CC, cool buffs, portals, tables, the best DPS etc. When i'm playing a lock i just don't care. I have fun playing my lock! And i will laugh my ass off every time i beat a mage at DPS.

Maybe it's out of spite... "Oh yeah? Mages are that good? Well watch this then..." Maybe it's because i relate to the lock play style more. Maybe because i relate to the class more. I really don't know!
But given the opportunity to be in a World First guild as a mage or in my 10 man struggling to down Sindi on HC with a 30% buff on my lock... my choice would be made before the question finished!

We're not top dps anymore! We don't have the utility we once had(Guild mass summon in Cata ( qq, we're useless)! We don't have the CC we once had! We don't have the uniqueness we once had! But i still play a warlock!

If you've come to a point where you're asking yourself "What should i play?" and the answer isn't "A lock! Doh!!!" then don't play it. Whatever i tell you, or anyone else, won't matter! IMO it's something you feel, not something you think about, or try to rationalize with logical discussions!
No, i'm not in any way a RP!

This guy has it down

[Deleted]

why pick a warlock over mage? do you have reasons to pick mage over lock?

Mages are boring.