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  1. #1

    Shaman tank cataclysm

    Hi guys,

    Blizzard said that there will be no tanking in cataclysm...

    However, I think it might be possible, when well geared

    It was possible in vanilla, in bc and it is still possible in wotlk, however it was getting much harder
    but when i look at the talents and abilities, i think it might get a little easier in cata instead

    and blizz already said that shamans are nearly finished

    The tanking talents:

    toughness: 10% more stamina
    shamanistic rage: 30% less dmg
    mahlstrom weapon: some instant heals
    feral spirits: heal on attack
    unleashed rage: 9 expertise is important for tanking

    spark of life: 15% more received healing, 6% more self heal
    ancestral resolve: situational 10% dmg reduction
    focused insight: less healing cost (since heals costs a lot and you will probably spamming frostshock) and awesome 30% increased healing

    with new mental quickness: 50% spell power instead 30%

    The tanking abilites:

    rockbiter weapon: 30% more threat, 5% dmg reduction
    unleash weapon: 5s taunt, only 15s cd (yeah shamans finally got taunt)
    greater healing wave: since i think there wont be much mana probs later, you have higher heal with it than healing wave
    frost shock: high threat
    shield of stoneclaw totem
    block and parry baseline

    Assumption:

    Greater healing wave: 10 000 heal
    with spark of life and focused insight active + mahlstrom: instant 15847 (nearly 60% increased heal)

    also think that shamans will have higher stamina than now (as all classes will have stamina like dd plate)

    Possible problems:

    No crit immune talent: is it still possible to get the 6% reduction from defense?
    No vengeance: will he still do enough dmg to keep aggro?
    less armor
    difficult to get items for tanking (no tanking gear for mail)
    lightning shield has to be refreshed more often
    massive dmg loss w/o windfury weapon

    Talent build:

    wowtal with this after end slash: #k=hFvBLGM_.9sm.shaman

    What do you think?

    lg Iseratho

    Edit:

    what do you think of him as caster tank as elemental?
    (no much explanation needed i guess)
    Last edited by Iseratho; 2010-08-06 at 03:05 PM.

  2. #2
    No. Just, no.

  3. #3
    Interesting idea, but honestly it's hard to believe that shaman could be competitive against warriors, paladins, droodz and DK. The main reason would be gear lacking of defensive stats, but still, we never know how far will reforging goes.
    Personally, I think they added rockbiter as a threat imbue with taunt effect, for more effective CC in cataclysm dungeons, which requires to kite.

    BTW, it might be great for soling elites and old content ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Total Biscuit
    I don't want the game nerfed to my level,
    I want to rise myself to the level of the game.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Renshe's Avatar
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    orrrrrr you get could get a druidwarriordeathknight or pallie who are actually spec'd into tanking XD, but it may work, and are you sure maelstorm works with Greater healing wave?

    And again, blizz may have said they are almost done with shamans, but it's still beta and there is still a lot of changes coming.

    As for the crit immune, they're taking it out of the game I believe (or giving tanks a talent that does it, I'm not sure)

    and what gear do you plan to wear? druid tanking, that won't do much. As far as I see it, you would just mail gear with lots of stamina on it and put tanking gems / enchants on, which will make you have mana problems and spell power problems down the line.

    Just let shaman tanking continue to stay dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashar View Post
    BTW, it might be great for soling elites and old content ^^
    But you could probably do this better with just dps gear so you burn stuff down quicker, and remember, everyone will have a buttload more health at 85, so solo'ing old instances (unless changed), will be a lot easier.

  5. #5
    Last night our mage held aggro and took a beating from one of the lichs in bloodwing halls for the entire time it stayed alive. Does this mean mages can be tanks? The answer is no. Shaman are not tanks, shaman will not be tanks in Cataclysm. Massively overgearing content to the point where a really good healers can keep you alive and really good DPS can feed you all their threat is not tanking.

  6. #6
    Crit immunity now goes through talents. Resilience no longer reduces crit chance, only crit damage last I checked.
    GC: Good news, everyone! We lowered the cooldown of Shield Wall to 5 sec and balanced assuming you hit it every 5 sec.

    Tanks: Um.... Thanks? Could you maybe just make it a passive at that point?

    GC: But hitting buttons is fun!

  7. #7
    like now it'll probably be a fun thing to have some fun with well over geared content

  8. #8
    it is not intended for cata raids, but maybe he is able to tank dungeons and wotlk raids
    (maybe ot or backup for the ot in raids) since he will be not able to tank lot of burst dmg, but still be able to negate a good amount of dmg
    the root for this idea was from the mass of selfheal, he will get...
    i also think that the 15% increased in healing received is a tool that shouldnt be underestimated

    however, if renshe is right, he will never be able to tank without being crit immune -.- (biggest prob imo)

    i know the use for the taunt effect on rockbiter weapon, but the other effects makes me wonder (i mean 30% more threat and 5% less dmg, should have some use too)

    however, even if it would not be possible to tank normal bosses, im still quite sure, that elemental shaman will get the new caster tank (instead of wl)
    rockbiter weapon, 6% less magic dmg, and dont forget the use of his totems (grounding totem is imo a tool, which is used a way too less, since it is sometimes capable of negating a lot of dmg)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Iseratho View Post
    also think that shamans will have higher stamina than now (as all classes will have stamina like dd plate)
    There will be much more stamina on cata gear in general. however, hunters and enh shaman are getting even more of an stamina buff, as int vanishes from our gear and flows to a big portion into stamina

    other than that: blizzard stated often enough they do not want us to tank. dont ask me why they still give us taunts, +aggro abilities etc. i very much doubt enh will be a viable tank though (except the scenario where you run around as a high-end equipped enh and a super healer with some dd noobs, doing some heroics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  10. #10
    other than that: blizzard stated often enough they do not want us to tank. dont ask me why they still give us taunts, +aggro abilities etc. i very much doubt enh will be a viable tank though (except the scenario where you run around as a high-end equipped enh and a super healer with some dd noobs, doing some heroics

    taunts just another ability we get to save people /shrug better our potential deaths then the healers going down since we can still self rez most of the time

  11. #11
    yeah, taunt is a useful tool for raiding and heroics

    however +threat and dmg reduction is not
    with frost shock and 30% more threat, aggro shouldnt be that much problem
    since frostshock is not used in any rotation due to its low dmg, it seems to be a pvp tool, but why do we need high threat on pvp?
    but for what do we need threat when we can not tank (for kiting taunt would be enough)

    as you can see, im just doubting the intention of blizzard (saying we are no tank class and giving us so much tank utilities)
    think of earth shock: first only tank classes had this debuff, than blizzard got the idea to give it us too

    if blizzard just give us: gear, crit immunity and vengeance (so the basic tank things) we would be the best tank ever
    im just saying, of course it will never be like that (for a good reason)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Iseratho View Post
    yeah, taunt is a useful tool for raiding and heroics
    no it´s not.

    as an enhance, it´s a free instant death ticket
    as an resto, it´s a tool to save healers as a healer, awesome sauce
    as an ele, it´s a range taunt that´s not even half as convinient to use as hunters distracting shot ( which they never use )
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  13. #13
    but you can ankh, which is useful in every spec es a saving tool (i hate people complaining about rep costs, since tanks who have the most, never complain, most of the time the cloth wearing classes do)
    and u can also use it for kiting

    or for destroying a raid if you are noob ^^ (which will be very likely to happen)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Iseratho View Post
    but you can ankh, which is useful in every spec es a saving tool (i hate people complaining about rep costs, since tanks who have the most, never complain, most of the time the cloth wearing classes do)
    and u can also use it for kiting

    or for destroying a raid if you are noob ^^ (which will be very likely to happen)
    ankhing is most of the time a ticket for a 2nd death,m as you´re reinkarnated with less health than someone soulstoned/battle-rezzed. furthermore suiciding because you can ankh is simply retarded and wont make it any better. it´s not about repair costs, but about it being completely retarded, we do not need it, we do not want it, it is a waste of a "new ability slot", it´s simply fail of blizz when you compare our new abilities with others.

    kiting as elemental? looking as frostshock and earthbind root do not work on a wide variety on instance mobs, and the taunt only lasting 5 seconds, there wont be much kiting.

    destroying raids is the most frequent event this useless *peep* will lead to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  15. #15
    Shamans will never be a real tank substitute (though I would like the idea having a tank tree instead of another dmg tree but meh) but I guess it will do for some groupquests and offtanking.
    Don't know if a spec for that would be worth it though, but I like the idea because I like it if people think further then the intended outlines of the game.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Straye View Post
    Is unleash weapon a taunt on beta? seriously?

    my hopes and dreams are crushed
    it unleashes the effects of your weapon imbues.
    flametongue:instant fire dmg(comparable in strenght with a weak initial flame shock dmg)+20% damage on next fire spell
    frostbrand:snares your target (40%?) and i believe additional snare when already snared
    windfury:50% main hand weapon damage and +haste for 5 attacks
    earth living: mini riptide, i believe

    rockbiter: 5 second taunt

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-07 at 12:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by luzi-kun View Post
    I like it if people think further then the intended outlines of the game.
    blizzard likes to call that exploit, and isn´t to fond of that. they nerfed resilience´s reduced crit chance in pve to make sure we dont try tanking with it.
    Last edited by Omanley; 2010-08-07 at 12:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  17. #17
    Enhancers won't be tanks.

    If blizzard ever adds a tank role to shamans, players will expect shamans to be able to tank deathwing 25 heroic as fine as every other tankclass.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Artefacts:
    • In ordner to better fit the current post-truth zeitgeist, we are going to rename alle occurences of "artefact" into "artebelieve".

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    ankhing is most of the time a ticket for a 2nd death,m as you´re reinkarnated with less health than someone soulstoned/battle-rezzed. furthermore suiciding because you can ankh is simply retarded and wont make it any better.
    1. when ankhing timing is important, you just have to watch the boss abilities and w8 for the right moment when there is not much grp dmg and after ankhing you just have to use your instant healing stuff, like heal potions
    2. it is not suiciding when you know someone really is gonna die (of course this is not easy)
    3. i never said its the best way, but it might still be better to save the brezz for more important raid members like healer and use this for dds
    4. it is a pity that we don't get something more useful for this slot, however it is still better than another dmg spell, since a like to be flexible and that is another improvement in flexibilty (although we have not much use of it)
    5. i just like the idea of shamans being a backup tank... (since i like shamans because they are so great at contributing to the raid, hopefully this will still exist in cata)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Iseratho View Post
    1. when ankhing timing is important, you just have to watch the boss abilities and w8 for the right moment when there is not much grp dmg and after ankhing you just have to use your instant healing stuff, like heal potions
    2. it is not suiciding when you know someone really is gonna die (of course this is not easy)
    3. i never said its the best way, but it might still be better to save the brezz for more important raid members like healer and use this for dds
    4. it is a pity that we don't get something more useful for this slot, however it is still better than another dmg spell, since a like to be flexible and that is another improvement in flexibilty (although we have not much use of it)
    5. i just like the idea of shamans being a backup tank... (since i like shamans because they are so great at contributing to the raid, hopefully this will still exist in cata)
    1.) except resto, shaman have no instant heals. the only way to instant heal as enh is maelstrom, which you have to stack first. furthermore, potions are generally used for dps (haste pot)
    2.) it is suiciding to taunt a boss which will 1hit you and probably even cleave your melee buddies as well when he turns around
    3.) wether you use an ankh as resto or ele/enh, you will use it anyway in case you die, because it would be a waste to use ss/b-rezz on a dead shaman with ankh off cd. we dont have the freedom to choose which to b-rezz, but we still do it worse on ourselves as well
    4.)to me, a new dmg spell would be FAR better than this. crappy utility is crappy, and not automatically better than an additional dmg spell
    5.)there will be no such thing as a back up tank except melee dps specs of tanking classes i.e.: feral, fury, ret, frost/unholy dk, as they only have to switch into bear form/defensive stance/equip shield+1h or switch pressence. and shamans are not great in contributing to the raid. not anymore. the auras of other classes provide the same buffs in a more convienient package (range, undestroyable/dispellable, mobility, usable with utility)

    a paladin had interrupt resistance and now gets an interupt as ret (earth shock => windshear)
    a paladin has movement impairing effect removal and now has a snare (frostshock)
    all that´s left is to give them an offensive dispell, and paladins are the better supporter, melee dps, healer, additional being able to tank, having the offensive capabilities of shamans ripped off together with their buffs.

    oh well, i derail. rockbiter taunt is crap
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  20. #20
    Sadly man shamans have tried and tried and tries can't be done. Also there is no more DR this true it was changed to a talent like for warriors it's bastion of defense.

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