Why even keep frostbrand weapon in the game?

[bateman]

Its obsolete.With Lava lash becoming enhances biggest damaging move aside from a maelstrom lava burst, Shamans will have no choice but to use Flametongue on their offhand in pvp(they already do use it in pve).So why keep frostbrand around?

Heres my solution: Give frostbrand additional benefits such as increasing stormstrike damage(FT increases LL dmg, it would be a good idea for FB to increase our other melee moves damage to compensate).They could also buff frozen power from 10% to 15 or 20%.Buff frostbrand damage, lower proc rate so its more suitable for pvp.

Those are just examples off the top of my head, but in any case frostbrand needs to be buffed and made attractive for pvp.Flametongue looks ridiculously superior to FB right now(ESPECIALLY with unleashed weapon increasing fire dmg, and therefore lava burst, by 20%).

[Aleksej89]

IMO Frostbrand Weapon should be deleted, and the following should be implemented:

- Frozen Power: This talent ALSO gives your Flametongue Weapon fire attacks a X% chance to Frostbite the target, slowing its movement speed by Y% for Z seconds.

This allows Enha to always have Flametongue in PvP while having the snare at the same time.

[Brezals]

oh theres a flag carrier *puts on frostbrand* hits him he get slowed by my attacks wich is very good, ok sure frost shock does the same but instead wasting CD on frost shock u could do a flameschock or earthshock so its for situational use :P not something u got on 100% of the time ofc u can if u like to slow all ur oponements u hit

[bateman]

IMO Frostbrand Weapon should be deleted, and the following should be implemented:

- Frozen Power: This talent ALSO gives your Flametongue Weapon fire attacks a X% chance to Frostbite the target, slowing its movement speed by Y% for Z seconds.

This allows Enha to always have Flametongue in PvP while having the snare at the same time.

I like this idea, also if they were to do this they should significantly buff flametongue damage.FB does like 1.5 or 2x the dmg FT does.

[Malthanis]

IMO Frostbrand Weapon should be deleted, and the following should be implemented:

- Frozen Power: This talent ALSO gives your Flametongue Weapon fire attacks a X% chance to Frostbite the target, slowing its movement speed by Y% for Z seconds.

This allows Enha to always have Flametongue in PvP while having the snare at the same time.

Okay, Flametongue causes... FROSTbite? I know this is a game with magic and such, but that's a bit too much of a stretch.

Frostbrand is entirely situational. For example, you're chasing after a flag-carrier. You shift to GW to catch up, and Frost Shock to break the shift and start your attack. Well now, it's a Protection Warrior with the flag, chaining his cooldowns as necessary to mitigate your damage. Your friends haven't caught up yet, what to do? Well, instead of wasting your shock CDs on Frost Shock, swap to Frostbrand and lay waste to him. That way, Gag Order has no effect, and you can use your other shocks as necessary. Now your friends can catch up and beat him in to submission and you can get your flag back.

[bateman]

Okay, Flametongue causes... FROSTbite? I know this is a game with magic and such, but that's a bit too much of a stretch.

Rename the talent something else and say, flametongue now burns the legs of your target, slowing their movement speed by 50%.

Frostbrand is entirely situational. For example, you're chasing after a flag-carrier. You shift to GW to catch up, and Frost Shock to break the shift and start your attack. Well now, it's a Protection Warrior with the flag, chaining his cooldowns as necessary to mitigate your damage. Your friends haven't caught up yet, what to do? Well, instead of wasting your shock CDs on Frost Shock, swap to Frostbrand and lay waste to him. That way, Gag Order has no effect, and you can use your other shocks as necessary. Now your friends can catch up and beat him in to submission and you can get your flag back.

You would be able to do all this with a changed FT too btw.Also no enhance shaman ever switches weapon imbues in the middle of a fight, just doesnt happen.

Im not totally for removing FB, I either want it to buffed so much that its actually competitive, or if they can't even do something as simple as that, I want the slow integrated into FT itself.

[Dargin]

You also have two other options for slows, through frost shock and earthbind. When you really think you need FB just have another offhand to switch to. Warriors must have a sword and board available to use their whole range of attacks, I don't think it is too much to ask for a weapon swap situationally for a different imbue. Hell, now that I think of it you could just switch imbues on the fly, be happy they aren't cast times like a rogue changing poisons.

[bateman]

You also have two other options for slows, through frost shock and earthbind. When you really think you need FB just have another offhand to switch to. Warriors must have a sword and board available to use their whole range of attacks, I don't think it is too much to ask for a weapon swap situationally for a different imbue. Hell, now that I think of it you could just switch imbues on the fly, be happy they aren't cast times like a rogue changing poisons.

Frost shock and earthbind both cost a GCD.Frost shock also does way lower damage than earth shock for enhancers.The main appeal for FB is the slow is off the GCD and applies on auto attack.Secondly they said they want the game playable without macros so forcing shamans to switch weapons every 8 seconds is both clunky and out of the question.

Dont tell us to be happy about broken game mechanics, and lol at comparing our situation to faceroll rogues that take absolutely no skill or effort to do twice as good.

[thundercles]

Is this not a choice between damage or utility?

I am certain that this is the specific design goal of Blizz for all classes in both PvE and PvP encounters.

You are asking to be given both the damage buff and the utility of a slowing effect at the same time.

Not that I have a problem with that, but it's counter to Blizz's stated design goals unless I am missing something.

So the answer to the question in the title is "because it does something different."

You get to choose if you'd rather have more utility or more throughput, just like with gearing and talenting.

That's the whole point, right?

[bateman]

Is this not a choice between damage or utility?

I am certain that this is the specific design goal of Blizz for all classes in both PvE and PvP encounters.

You are asking to be given both the damage buff and the utility of a slowing effect at the same time.

Not that I have a problem with that, but it's counter to Blizz's stated design goals unless I am missing something.

So the answer to the question in the title is "because it does something different."

You get to choose if you'd rather have more utility or more throughput, just like with gearing and talenting.

That's the whole point, right?

Does practically every other class in the game have to choose between damage and utility? didn't think so.

And your damn right I'm asking for equal treatment.I want damage AND utility AND buffs like all other classes in the game.Surprised?

[Tempos]

Frostbrand works like crippling poison for a rogue, sure we lose a bit of damage initially, but the frostbrand proc makes sure that we are in range of the target for longer, plus we get a nice little buff to damage when the target has the debuff. I dont understand what you all are complaining about, frost brand is a good thing, it still does damage, it slows the target, and it boost ur other damage. Really, it is till gonna be our desired offhand imbue.

[sicness]

Does practically every other class in the game have to choose between damage and utility? didn't think so.

And your damn right I'm asking for equal treatment.I want damage AND utility AND buffs like all other classes in the game.Surprised?

Crippling poison for rogues is the exact same thing, the only advantage it has is for mutilate rogues. Considering that enh shaman have 2 other options for slows there's really no room for argument as to whether or not FB weapon should be incorporated to flametongue in some way. Losing flametongue/lava lash isn't significant in pvp anyways.

[bateman]

Crippling poison for rogues is the exact same thing, the only advantage it has is for mutilate rogues. Considering that enh shaman have 2 other options for slows there's really no room for argument as to whether or not FB weapon should be incorporated to flametongue in some way. Losing flametongue/lava lash isn't significant in pvp anyways.

mutilate rogues are currently THE rogue pvp spec so I fail to see your point.

[sicness]

mutilate rogues are currently THE rogue pvp spec so I fail to see your point.

My point is enh shaman have 2 other options for slows that are reliable unlike most other classes. That plus the fact that losing 25% damage of lava lash and the extra damage of flametongue in pvp is hardly noticeable.

[Voltair]

Does practically every other class in the game have to choose between damage and utility? didn't think so.

And your damn right I'm asking for equal treatment.I want damage AND utility AND buffs like all other classes in the game.Surprised?

Um yea, they do actually, ask a warrior if he has to choose between damage or utility cause you better damn well believe that he does, 90% of a warriors Utility is from other stances switching stances loses rage which drops damage, its a trade off so deal with it.

My rogue does trade off's just the same through weapon switches for different poisons, if I need mind-numbing on my target cause their opponent has very high damage I swap my weapon, same for knocking off enrage/berserk buffs with Anesthetic as well for my rogue/druid 2s, I lose damage sometimes I may even lose my MS, you trade damage for utility. Oh and guess what I live, and ultimately that's what matters.

[bateman]

Um yea, they do actually, ask a warrior if he has to choose between damage or utility cause you better damn well believe that he does, 90% of a warriors Utility is from other stances switching stances loses rage which drops damage, its a trade off so deal with it.

My rogue does trade off's just the same through weapon switches for different poisons, if I need mind-numbing on my target cause their opponent has very high damage I swap my weapon, same for knocking off enrage/berserk buffs with Anesthetic as well for my rogue/druid 2s, I lose damage sometimes I may even lose my MS, you trade damage for utility. Oh and guess what I live, and ultimately that's what matters.

You're actually comparing rogue pvp viability to enhance pvpv viability? really?

[Chimpzilla]

The main appeal for FB is the slow is off the GCD and applies on auto attack.Secondly they said they want the game playable without macros so forcing shamans to switch weapons every 8 seconds is both clunky and out of the question.

Dont tell us to be happy about broken game mechanics, and lol at comparing our situation to faceroll rogues that take absolutely no skill or effort to do twice as good.

As a warrior I'd like to point out that you don't need a macro to swap weapons. Generally what makes weapon swapping clunky for the warrior is we typically do it for a spell reflect and are penalized by actual game mechanics such as global cooldowns and various checks to ensure we have the right weapons equipped. I'm not really seeing how the change proposed would force you to change weapons every 8 seconds, but I guess you feel enhance shammy's should have a permanent snare effect without having to think. Pretty sure the rogue is the only one who gets that.

Does practically every other class in the game have to choose between damage and utility? didn't think so.

And your damn right I'm asking for equal treatment.I want damage AND utility AND buffs like all other classes in the game.Surprised?

Warrior again checking in and we are constantly asked to choose between damage and utility. Have full rage, but need to use an ability in a different stance? Have fun losing rage switching stances. Need to spell reflect CC or damaging spell? Have fun bringing out your 1 hander and shield and doing less damage. If you want equal treatment I'm sure they could make frostbrand worse.

[Sollace]

Does practically every other class in the game have to choose between damage and utility? didn't think so.

And your damn right I'm asking for equal treatment.I want damage AND utility AND buffs like all other classes in the game.Surprised?

Deathknights have to choose to use their frostrunes to either slow or for their main strikes. Big case of Utility vs Damage.

[Voltair]

If you don't think Enhance is viable your doing it wrong, you may not be on top, but I've seen quite a few good enhancers in the PvP brackets over the last expansion.

I'm also comparing trade-offs not viability, in no way did I say "I'm viable your not"

I said "If I want or need Utility X I trade for P, D and/or Q"

I mean I'll gladly trade you my passive slow for you to roll your passive slow into your FT just give me your purge, you can't talk about balance issues when you don't take in all the facts of your class in the first place

Edit: You also forget how powerful the strength of a passive slow(most people have to do something to use their slow), aoe slow, and long distance instant cast root is in the first place, even if it doesn't root having a slow that extends for more than melee range is VERY useful

[Tempos]

You're actually comparing rogue pvp viability to enhance pvpv viability? really?

I hear the world viability throw around way to much, Rogues are good in Pvp not because of being able to use damage 100% of the time. They are good because they have a wide variety of utility spells that allows them to control a battle, and often they have to give up pure damage to use those utilities. And don't get me wrong, I hate rogues with a bloody passion when I'm PvPing, but I can accept that there is a decent amount of skill that it takes to know when to control and when to nuke. All he is trying to say is that there is nothing wrong with having to choose between doing damage and controlling an enemy better, that is ultimately what good PvP comes down to. Trying to get rid of a control spell because it doesn't do as much damage is really silly.